Rogues adjustment for new tlp and PLers

I've been playing an on server and there is a reasonable demand for rogues for one simple reason, corpse recovery. Whoever back in the day removed corpse runs should have given rogues a slight buff right when that patch dropped because it was a huge rogue side-nerf (granted that was pre-tlp iirc so someone needed to think of it on first classic tlp drop). I propose a simple solution that gives rogues a slight buff in early era, creates a moderate plat sink (also beneficial to the game) and doesn't make rogues too good. Just remove the cooldown on apply poison. If you're feeling extremely generous also add something that requires higher lockpicking than bards can accomplish maybe some chests or something in dungeons or that have a chance to drop (ala eq2) when bosses are killed with a little bonus loot.

I also humbly request again that you eliminate afk PLing. It's seems crazy that the actual rules state that you have to be at your keyboard but people are allowed to advertise and execute leveling afk characters. Either do something about it OR admit that this service is being contracted out by DPG. 24/7 AFK PL services being allowed to run with no friction all this time seems very suspicious to me (and not only me). I'm tired of the constant ads for it from those we pretty much know are RMTing. I'm beginning to think this is a corporate work-around for not being able to sell pre-leveled "heroic" characters on a tlp without losing most of the players.

Other than those items I look forward to the new TLP. Thanks.

It'd be great for Rogues to get full speed sneak at lvl 1 so they aren't left in the dust by other classes with the ability to self-invis.

How to help rogues:

Starts with Shroud of stealth at lvl 1
Once they hit 12: Give them the same critical hits % that warriors get at 12.
Double backstab at lvl 20.
Triple backstab at 55.
Release damage proc poisons at 65.
Anatomy(Assassinate humanoids) 5 levels below you starting at 65.
Maybe increase piercer damage on rogue usable weapons by 1-3 damage starting at 70.
Battle Leap at 75.

This might make them OP tbh but what's the worst that happens? They change this stuff, test it and find out it's too OP and they revert some if not all *shrugs*

You are venturing a smidge into tin foil hat territory but trading a krono for a PL isn't against the EULA. Zone disruption would be, and they do that sometimes, but outside of zone disruption all the PLee really has to do is hang out at his computer and it's all above board. I know that whenever my buddies have gotten PLs they were at least partially paying attention the whole time, enough that they could answer a query, which is all you really have to do. Probably why they haven't cracked down on it.

If the EQ players didn't want the PL services to be a thing they wouldn't use them and they would die out. Obviously there are enough customers out there to make it worth while. I think your beef is with the EQ playerbase. Ignore the advertisers and it's all good. Heck, just leave all the global channels and you are golden. I never see advertisements.

If being semi-afk during a group exp session was a banning offense most pug players would have long since gotten the boot.

They just need to increase exp rate instead of having us depend on exp pots/PL services, but that would kill some of their profits and we can't have that now can we!

And don't try to deny that PLer's aren't using cheat programs. No one is boxing 30+ characters PLing in Underfoot's Foundation zone and not cheating.

Rogues dont need help. Once you get to Kunark youre fine. Noone is going to say no to a rogue for a group, youre not being replaced in raids, youre not even the worst dps. Youre just simply not the best. If you claim rogues need a buff, all that is going to happen is that other classes will then claim the same and the game becomes even more power bloated.

THE ONLY REASON you think rogues need buffs, is because you probably play one, and youre upset monks are stronger, end of story. Rogues are fine.

I played a Monk first (for like 18 years) before I played a Rogue.

Rogue is literally inferior in every respect except for the very marginal raidwide dps their 2.0 click provides that is almost definitely outpaced by simply being replaced by another Monk.

Monks have FD, Mend, Purify Body, higher burst damage, equal or greater sustained damage, higher natural defenses, better defensive discs, and access to the objectively best race in the game for every class that can be one (Iksar).

If you decide to play a Rogue it is a well established fact, not an opinion, that they are a one trick pony type of class that also happens to be surpassed in their specific niche. By the time they catch up to Monks, Necros/Mages are the dominant classes that make all melee look like clowns on every parse.

You can decide whatever you want to do with that information, but that is how it is, and I don't blame people for wanting to see a class with no utility be able to execute its niche the best. Same goes for Wizards getting dominated by pet classes most of the time.

You cant list purify body and ignore Rogue AAs, youre picking and choosing. Rogues have utility, just not the type of utility that monks provide.
I agree that rogues are "worse" than monks, the issue is that I just dont think rogues are SO MUCH WORSE that they need buffs. They do just fine.

All they need to do is increase the backstab damage on a few weapons so that rogues do more melee dps than monks.

As a rogue - The accuracy on backstab is the sole reason they perform "ok" in a lot of cases
Give them that, which is arguably easier to do IMO

Rogue is the one class I would advise players to avoid

People meme on druids, paladins and early rangers but they can be useful. Rogue is purely an RP class

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/new-tlp-rogues.295836/page-4#post-4288640

I love that another thread popped up about this subject. I highly encourage all of these great conversations to continue on the main thread, I believe the more views and comments and having this thread constantly at the top of the TLP forum is the best chance that it will get the recognition it deserves from the Dev's.

I think you are missing the point. The PLers are botters. You can literally watch your screen and the dudes just warp somewhere and disappear then like 30 seconds later they are back in camp and you don't even see them running lol. Everything the PLers do is bannable. Zone Disruption, botting, hacking, advertising AFK services which is a EULA violation.

Rogues 100% need a boost in classic. Classic rogues are bar none the worst class in the game probably during any era. There is zero reason to bring a rogue during classic for any reason. This should be changed.

Now they get better during Kunark when they get their epic but they are still not great and any person who tells you that rogues "dominate" or "get amazing" during Velious have grouped/guilded with terrible monks (and there are vast differences in good players vs bad, for instance our current monks are beating our bad monks by triple the DPS). I have been the raid leader/guild leader of a top 5 guild on almost every single server and I have only once seen a rogue that was phenomenal (looking at your Rovell) and even he couldn't hold a candle to the well played monks (He could easily beat bad monks).

Now that I am in HoT on Mischief, I have STILL yet to see the amazing era of the Rogue. Do they get better? Yes. But I have never seen the era that they dominate any charts. The good monks have beat them every single expansion and now good warriors, zerkers, necros, and wizards are beating them as well.

All that said, Rogues are a terrible class in classic and never become a tier 1 class at any point IMO. They should get a buff as their utility was nerfed so all they have is DPS.

+1 to buffing rogues, ESPECIALLY in classic

Would you be open to buffs in the early eras, namely classic where rogues routinely are out dps'd by pets?

Theres no way you can institute buffs in classic that dont impact later expansions. Thats the issue. As i said the other thread you quoted me in, most classes get outdps'd by pets in classic.

This is not true at all. Just make the buffs fall off each expansion. They can do it with MOTM, they could do it with a rogue buff. In Classic rogues get a 20% dmg buff, in Kunark 10%, in Velious nothing. Presto, you didn't impact the other expansions.

Also, rogues are getting out DPSed by everyone. Literally everyone. A cleric can out DPS a rogue on your average mob, assuming they are allowed to spend their mana nuking and not healing. For a class that is really just pure DPS they are truly horrible in classic. The only reason to bring one along or have one in raid is because you like them as a person. Want to play a rogue in classic? You better have a charming personality.

As a "delicate" solution, if you added +2 backstab damage to

Bone Razor
Crystalline Spear
Serpent's Fang
Thornstinger
Ragebringer
Intricate Silver Rapier
Massive Heartwood Thorn
Mrylokar's Dagger of Vengeance

You could boost rogue damage pre-PoP without actively interfering with item balance in PoP. Whether that'd be enough for the class is up for the people to do parsing, but that is A buff in classic that doesn't impact later expansions. Even if you just wanted to do the classic weapons and leave everything from kunark the same, itd be an improvement to whats available in-era without hurting future expansions.

Let's be real, any changes done to balance classes strictly for TLPs have been nerfs. You're better off asking for nerfs to pets and fist ratio than asking for rogue buffs.

Even with the devs nerfing pets already before pop launch, they are still way too strong in classic.

Make it 3 back stab bonus and add it to all the major early daggers in classic as well. Including
Giant snake fang
dragoon dirk
Serrated bone dirk
Polished steel dagger
Fine steel dagger
Fine steel spear
Burning rapier