Hi everyone! Very long time Pal who used to solo, then 2, 3, etc box to a full group. The game has gone way, way too button heavy to do that. No longer wedded to Paladins. Honestly seems like too much work. Thinking of condensing down to a 3 pc (+3 merc) group. Could also do a 4+2 if the 4th PC would bring a great addition with minimal button-mashing. I DO like to tank, so not interested in a all-caster pet group. 1 account will be Gold, the others Silver. I do have a 5th Silver that I can keep leveled up if a buff-bot would be helpful. So its Tank + X + X (with maybe a 4th), then the rest mercs. Thoughts most appreciated!
pal shammy mage? boxing 2 melees is rather hard. Mages are quite boxable and will blow your bard away for dps.
Sure a Mage is better DPS than a bard 1v1, but have to add in the DPS the bard adds to all the other melee, and casters if you play those songs. Also bard are so easy to box it's almost cheating.
bards multiply dps, but you need enough dps to make it worthwhile. Paladins aren't known for their stunning dps. pal/shm is not a high dps combo. Not saying don't play bard, but bard isn't the best option here by far.
Although I mostly agree, one thing to note here is bards bring a lot of cc to the group too. So do palies and shammies but a lot of people make a base box group including the bard because it's huge utility and decent dps, not because it's going to multiply the couple other toons laying around by enough to outweigh a dps instead. But mag is def a better choice if you don't kill in places where shammy and pally cc isn't enough.
Solid point about Pally DPS, and not really enough undead in the upper range to grind on ( for most people) I suspect. Warriors are certainly better DPS, far less utility, but do pair well with bards and shammy. Overall you wouldn't loose a ton going this route. Although, root, stun, Brells and panic button heals while tanking go away. SK is the default and to some, the boring choice. But you do get the better DPS, and snare, but OP seems to want to avoid knights. War, Bard, Shammy or War, Mage, Shammy
Sadly there is a reason for this. SK are so incredibly brokenly OP that you really need to ask why you are playing anything else. The answer to that is always "Flavor/something different". There is NEVER a compelling game related/power reason. SK aren't just a little better, they embarrass paladins with how OP they are.
SK's are not technically OP. To fix the balance of the game all it takes to modify https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=6268 with something like "12. Limit: Max Target Level(75) (lose 5% per level over cap)" (similar limitation on Druid epic) and we'll see how fast SK's will turn into "meh, just another so-so tank" Lich Sting effect is unbalanced, not SK's.
do gold war, 2x silver mages if you don't like having to run at all or do gold war, 1x silver bard, 1x silver mage if you don't mind running around a little sham are wonderful but in your situation you need consistent, easy dps and nothing in LS needs slows (consider it a luxury, especially in your case) or much healing you will use 1 mage to get to where you want to go since you're not wanting pets to tank keep pet taunt off but aggro the mob(s) with a pet keeping a little distance with the mage and group coth (block coth on the mage getting your group around or you'll get aggro on that mage because it would reset the pet aggro) then just grab each mob off with war as you land from the coth and get em down. both mage pets shall /assist your war, then do your servants, ecliptic, foe, burnout, nukes etc..war should be all hdex type 5, use ic and offensive abilities as often as they pop.. he's your only gold so you would need to be on him the most he will be your main source of dps.. (LS group weps are good for that so another + for you) note: I don't use any silver accounts so I can't say if those mages will be great (I can confirm silver bards are actually not terrible as songs make up a big part of their adps) but my suggestions are based on how fast you could do stuff with only 1 gold account and thus make alot of assumptions. 2 mages if you're setting your bind points creatively between the two and utilizing campfire well is the fastest you're going to get stuff (merc's, partisans) done with a 3box setup. It would also be good for grinding aa/exp if repeating kill tasks (mercs) over and over
I'm assuming you are not using any 3rd party software, since you are looking for a combo that does not require a lot of clicks. I suggest Tank + bard + melee (rog, ber, monk). Put bard and melee toon on Follow. You swing tank around one side of mob and the other 2 will be well positioned to melee on the other side. Use the same keys to attack with all toons. For me, "4" is to /attack + other effects i want to do on engage. "3" is short refresh combat strikes, "5" is longer refresh combat abilities, spells, etc. Also, overlap windows, so you can click to bring a toon to the front using only the mouse. This way your fingers never have to leave your attack keys on the keyboard. In my case, I just click from toon to toon while pressing number keys 3, 4, or 5 on my keyboard. I never understood why people alt-tab. With this setup, it is best to run TO mobs, instead of pulling mob back to group, but if you need to break up a tricky camp, the bard can step in to help. Also, once you get used to bard speed and double invis (which they get at lvl 100), it is hard to live without them. If you are worried about healing, you can choose an SK for their life taps, but they will be more clicky. I'm working on a WAR for their DPS (to fill my BST slot, since Pets can't hold aggro over player toons in missions). I find that DPS on my SK is lower than i would like. I'm hoping War DPS will give me kill rates closer to my BST/BARD/ROGUE combo, with added advantage of WAR being able to tank in missions
Wow, thanks everyone for the info! Lots of different views. Answering some questions- No, not opposed to a knight, just done with Pal. No 3rd party software. I don't do real awesome with transitions, so plan on pulling with the tank. I So we have: SK Shammy Bard Ber? 2 healer mercs? (or if I have shammy do I go 1 healer and 1 dps?) Is the bard and shammy redundant with healing? I heard Wizards are decent in group game (and wouldn't have to position as much). What do you think about SK Enc Mag Wiz 2 healer mercs?
As a no-software 4 box, I'd vote for the option that includes mage. The mage pet tank is great and a nice insurance policy if Main tank goes down, or you get an add. Plus coth is so good, I refuse to box without it. I love wizards, but you should seriously consider druid in the sk/mage/ench comp. You have mana regen for the mana hungry druid dps and you also get a battle rez, tracking, pro-forage, group heals, movespeed buffs, and some adps, while keeping the ports/evac option (which I also love as a 4-box!).
Absolutely not. Longtime druid main. There are only two classes with 2.0 epics which are totally useless above level 95 due to that mechanic. Remove that, let every class be able to use their epic at higher levels. And even if you hamstring the SK epic, there's still Mortal Coil.
I'm not a fan of level restrictions as a means to resolve items like this. I believe a better approach would be similar to what is used on modern LT weapons. It's a percent but with the total capped. In this case the total cap would be reflective of the era of the weapon, that being a 94 damage weapon, not a modern weapon with a damage 10x that amount.
I recommend OP consider how he wants to play. Swarming isn't the same as grinding out sequential mob kills and missions. For multi-mob power I'd go SHD SHM BRD MAG Pull with SHD, SHM to slow/back-up heal. MAG dps and coh. BRD can mez when needed and helps with regen and some damage. It does NOT give you ports or evac. A WIZ as a 5th would. But that may be more real PCs than you want to alt-tab. In contrast SHD ENC DRU MAG Pull with SHD. ENC debuffs/mezz (as needed). MAG dps/coh. DRU heal/dps/evac/port. Then alternate your mercs (2 heal, 1 heal/1 dps, 2 dps) depending on what you are fighting. I'd say this doesn't swarm as well as the SHD/SHM/BRD group, but it is more flexible overall.
I run with war, shm, bard, zerk, ranger. This is a super super easy group. War can pull or wait for bard to single pull something to war, slow/dot/hot/pet, get zerk in place to attack/rage/mash key, ranger autofire/cast 3 arrow spells, bard autoattack/melody. Grab your beer and let the group grind it down. You can racket up the dps by doing discs, adding more dots, spells and kill faster if you want to work at it. I prefer not to unless I am on task for something that needs to be done faster. The bard will start to gain on the agro meter but if you have agro mash key on inc you will never lose agro to bard from your war. Start with war/bard/sham. You can add healer merc on the gold account and 2 rog mercs. This is a really really easy group to play and there isn't anything you can't do in game....besides some group missions.
My 3 box = Paladin / Mage / Bard + 2 x Healer Merc + DPS merc (rogue not caster) Harmonious line of self-buffs with healer mercs is kinda like cheating for aggro + the group heal procs Bard is easy / handy / and decent with just basic /melody going Mage isn't bad with a couple of macros for assisting (malo, pet attack, etc...) and casting spells I play on 1 PC with 3 monitors - 1 char / monitor and just go back and forth to click on things as needed. Rarely mess with bard other than the assist macro. Spend most of the time on either the paladin or mage depending on what needs done at the moments. Two healer mercs because they suck and I'm lazy / relaxing when I play this way. I could probably go 3 x DPS mercs if I really wanted to focus on the Paladin. Even 1 healer merc with 2 DPS mercs takes a lot of pressure off of playing the paladin at a decent level of competence.
With this particular bit in mind, a Warrior would be the ideal tank. In a boxing scenario, they are more "set it and forget it" than either of the knights. (Regardless of what some people seem to think, yes you actually have to hit buttons on SKs )
