Q1: What type of development methodology do you follow? Do you plan to revisit it ? I ask as a concerned (and avid long term) EQ player due to three recent items: (1) Legacy Exp (10% more exp per char at max level) was announced with fanfare for Oakwynd TLP but it didn't work for AA Exp in Luclin. It got fixed/addressed weeks later. Surely a basic methodology would have involved checking the handful of ways to earn exp. (2) We got new chat filters recently , but you can't save them. Isn't this very fundamental coder level unit-testing? (3) Personas and the basic bugs around it (Ex: log out on 1 persona, when you log back in it is on another persona - bug) thanks P.S: I am not being sarcastic etc. I am genuinely curious and concerned.
I'm beginning to think either a) they are using some kind of a hybrid or b) they tossed it out the window and going with a bean counter methodology (push it out and fix it on live). Last time I heard of somebody using a bean counter method, it went so bad there was no backout plan, somebody else had to clean up the mess that was created, and the one that said move forward was pulled from the project when it happened and moved to a non-tech spot it was that big of a mess,
If you look at the bug forum, there are plenty of issues that really should never have made it to Live. I think they have finally broke us to the point where we now expect some things not to work on go-live day and 'willingly' put up with them fixing it at a later date. Heck, we even joke about it now.
Agree with both. My concern is that if even very basic unit-testing is kind of out the window, they would need to focus on it, especially on what probably is 25 years of sphagetti code. Sure they may not have a QA department, but still. Before someone says to join the Beta testing and help out - this thread is not about it. This is more about basic development checks/reviews and tests before which the code shouldn't even move.
I agree. We've been subjected to poor design, development, testing, and QA for so many years that the vast majority of the player base has normalized stuff not working when it's released to Live. People have forgetten that crap getting released in a broken state is NOT NORMAL. It should never become acceptable to ANYONE, especially the devs, for that to happen. It's an embarrassment and we, the players, should never just shrug our shoulders at it.
The response was new filters weren't supposed to be allowed to be turned off, so it wouldn't have been in the design documents/requirements. Unit tests/test cases are developed from the design requirements, no requirement, no test case. Typically, test cases are written by the QA/test department, not by the coders, from the design documents. My job I've had a number of things have adverse effect after deployment because the functionality that broke was not a requirement so was not tested. I would also guess the way they segment workloads, the person that did the filter work isn't responsible for the settings/eqclient work. The fact that the filters were put in to be turned off is the issue.
We were specifically told by the developer that worked on the chat filters that the reason they didn't have an on/off feature was because it would require double the work. Like 99% of the bad stuff that gets pushed to production (not just EQ), it's about the work required .. and piss-poor planning.
Most - not all unfortunately - "should" go through planning, design, requirements (not in that order precisely), sound off areas that are impacted or touched, coding, internal testing, what doesn't work, go back and rework, re-internal test, etc., backout plans, acceptance. What I'm going to "assume" ... when it's an xpac drop, things are loaded onto beta and tested before the invite goes out to beta players. This is the closest to the live environment as it will get. Beta testers "should" be helping point out what isn't working, they have the biggest variety of comps to provide honest feedback not just run through to see how fast they can get to the end once it goes live. I know beta had a ton of feedback for alot of this and some of it was delayed. But we still have the same problems that were noted in beta. Something went sideways. My disappointment comes that we are still seeing the same things that were discussed on beta. They also receive feedback from test, therein also lies a huge disappointment that it gets passed over. Why?
the thing about ama questions is they need to be concise and SINGLE. Posts that are 5+ (much less the 15-20 ) questions will be ignored. The devs aren't gonna spend the entire hour talking about just 1 person's post. While we have alot of questons - you need to account for the format. Ask the most important one. Lists won't work
I've worked in the bean counter methodology development as a software tester. Immovable deadlines to fullfill someone's MBO requirement. Primarily only issues filed by customers -after- release (and then only the high profile ones) get scheduled for fixes. Internal filed issues mostly get pushed back or dropped in the bit bucket especially if the found issue "already existed" in a prior release. Poorly written requirements with developers harangued to only do development to the requirements and nothing else. Requirements not including "basics" like migration, logging, saving settings, interaction with other features. Software testers are seen as obstacles to releases being on time. Developers use the "testing phase" as the extra time to get additional features in or other significant changes added leaving very little actual testing time (and then testing is blamed for the "slip"). And, so on...
Their management obviously doesn't have any standards or doesn't care what their teams are working on as long as they push these projects out by their deadlines. This is a sign of a very poorly run company. So this isn't just a developer problem, it's bad management. It's their culture now.
Agreed - I will word it better as a single Q. My worry is the AMA will be a sunshine and puppies show with questions asking about cosmetics etc being picked up, which those on the bots etc being not chosen (it is their prerogative of course).
Unfortunately, about 30% of the time will be wasted on non-questions like "what flavor of chocolate do you like to eat".
This just goes to show they do not understand their player base and how having this much extra data effects game play.
The problem with the AMA thread is that it very quickly went from serious questions about the game to people just posting their personal wish lists for what they want. I don't there there's gonna be a single serious question picked to be answered, and if there are any, we're gonna get "cutesy" ha-ha answers or just plain smoke blown in our faces that are filled with a lot of double talk that don't actually answer anything.
From the 2019 Developer AMA (has it really been 5 years since they did this?), that may even be a stretch. For those who dont remember, heres what they chose to answer back then. There were over 100 things typed as questions. Please remember, THIS WAS CURATED. Q: Necro dot revamp? (many, many, many, many times was this asked as a question) A: some day Q: How do you think the Everquest team, moving forward, can keep the "old game" fresh, exciting, and relevant? A: Old content is old. (cites EoK and RoS as how they would add new old content) Q: will game client UI ever not be garbage A: Probably not Q: do people even play your expasions? Why keep making new ones. A: I didnt even think we should have made Vex Thal, but here we are. (Ed) A: You're both wrong in your assumptions. (Alan). 5 "FV / PVP TLP?!?!?1" questions (With literally every possible line of text for 2 hours being spammed with PVP or FVTLP emotes). Answer every single time is No. Q: Any chance you ever work with people who host different EQEMU servers to actually get ideas people respond to? A: Legal says thats never going to happen. Q: Can you revert Freeport already? A: Everyone in the company hates it, but we actually dont know how to do it. 6 more EQEMU questions. Q: Why dont you guys have more remote positions. A: Whats a remote position. 11 more tlp questions including: "Why mounts bad" "why illusions bad", "Will you partner with Taco Bell". Answers are all "Because no". Q: Quarm server? A: too much work, and everyone who was banned for getting extra claim stuff should all should stay banned for claiming things we gave you. Q: Who?:Everquest :: Connery:Bond A: Every male dev answers 'me'. Female devs answer Fippy. Q: New graphical update A: Many lines of text saying "no" in every different way imaginable. Q: How to grow the Everquest IP A: "Its bigger than you think" (And then the financial statements came out and boy was that a lie) Q: Are there any plans to increase the operating budget of EQ, or is management's plan to continue to slowly reduce its size from its current "4.5 artists, 5.3 designers, and 5.7 programmers" despite "the fact that the EverQuest team has been continually begging management for 2 additional content designers for multiple years to no avail". (Quotes from Dzarn). A: (Holly) That is literally not your business. 3-4 non-questions Q: New EQ Products A: Yes Q: Any plan on making AA less generic and samey A: Yes (Nope!) More necro dot revamp and TLP race questions. Q: 3rd party tools re: relevance and growing number of people using them A: nonanswer 11 questions on: luclin vs old models, which do you like? , necro dot revamp when, pvptlp / fvtlp Q: what would it take to guarantee a new server launch wont be riddled with backend issues on day 1. A: There is nothing we can do, its going to happen. 3 more non-questions, 2 or 3 More PvP server questions. A:Zek is still the least populated server, so still no. 10+ more non-questions Q: Pet Character sheet A: We considered it. Q: Inventory screen to show worn effects at a glance A: We know this is something we need to do More necro dot revamp, PVP/FV TLP, EQNext Q: did you know gates was tuned badly A: yes. Eq guild summit... Blizzard was just better at all that than we were. Q: better graphics A: lack time, resources. A: Nobody agrees on what "better" means. 10 more: Non-questions, "want to join my tlp guild", remastered eq, eqip value falling? , necro dot revamp Q:TLP that keeps in-era stuff by era (coin weight, no shared bank access, no new models until luclin, etc) A: Its the most impossible thing anyone has asked for. 5 more non-questions including this: Q: "why are TLP'ers all antisocial autists with fairly noticeable mental issues" A: "fairly noticeable mental issues" might be too far. Q: EQPlayers? Census API? Fan Faires? A: shrug Q: Is EQ still spaghetti code held together by broken forks A: Less than youd think 10 more non-questions Q: EQ 20th merch? A: We're been thinking about this for 10 years, no plans yet. Q: New Player Experience (its essentially 8 questions and a forum post in one question) A: we know NPE is really bad, but we have no plans to revamp. Q: Having seen maybe a total of 3 legit questions in 5 pages I have to ask, Why the [] would you agree to this? A: :emoji: Q: is there a future for eq. A. Probably. 6 questions asking for any details. Answers: no. 8more non-questions Heroics above 85? (4 variations of) Some day Permanent sleepers tomb 1.0? shrug More questions about 'doing things with the IP'. A: see above 13 more non-questions including one i cant type as shorthand without getting a ban for. They intentionally did not answer 6 questions posed. 5 were variations of the above, 1 was about favorite pornstars.
Thanks for posting that Barraind Also, so VERY glad they will be selecting messages from the boards here instead of just a chat where people spam BS. There will be some useful filtering.
