Why is the raid out of combat regen timer so long?

Except there are several people using the bug as a reason to reduce the timer instead of focusing just on the timer itself. Another big ability for that would be clerics AE rez.

Instead of focusing on that bug allows players to do as a reason to lower the timer it should be on the real issue here which is how long it takes to recover mana and endurance after a fight.

If the concern is how people might utilize aggro drops to do things in combat that they shouldn't be able to, maybe the solution is to introduce a mechanic that removes all combat timers and restores full HP/Mana/Endurance once the chest at the end of an event is opened.

This would solve most of the issues caused by a combat timer (except in the unfortunate instance of a failed event) while still providing protections against the type of issues you are citing as examples.

That sounds like a great idea

Not all bugs raise up to the level of exploit that needs any sort of action to be taken.

What does that even mean? It's simple: There is a word for when you leverage a bug for personal advantage. I'll give you two clues

1. It starts with E
2. It ends with ploit

This isn't subjective. It is objective fact. No matter how little or large the impact is. Using a BUG to circumvent any mechanic is the definition of EXPLOIT.

No it isn't that simple, not all bugs are that serious and don't get classified as an exploit if you take advantage of them. You can continue to call it an exploit but no one is going to care that anyone is taking advantage of this. The only issue is attempting to use a bug as a reason to make changes to OOC timers.

You are confusing exploit the noun and exploit the verb. It's that simple.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/exploit

You're going to tell me Cambridge is wrong? It doesn't matter if people care about it or not. Taking advantage of a bug is exploiting that bug. The bug can be small, large, low impact, high impact, well known, not well known, it literally doesnt matter. What does matter is the act, which is exploiting that bug for personal gain.

Would a dev recommend exploiting a known bug? I would think not. I would also think if that bug mattered they would fix it or if it didn't matter enough they would get rid of the mechanic which users exploit with no consequence. If devs don't care enough that people are circumventing a mechanic by exploiting a bug, what is the point of the mechanic's existent?

And I am suggesting that this bug is not going to be called an exploit and nothing will happen to anyone who takes advantage of it. This is just one of the low priority bugs that have hit EQ over the years that take for ever (if ever) to get fixed and nothing is ever done about those who took advantage of it. It would be similar to the illusion/shrink bug to get past doors in the past.

Sure they are not going to recommend using it but that doesn't mean that anything will be done to those who use it.

As for the fixing it part is getting around the timer like that really a major issue? I don't think so but it would be nice to have it fixed eventually and just because they don't fix a bug doesn't mean they are going to change the design of something around it.

Again, noun vs verb. You're failing to understand what the difference is

And they did recommend using it.

Your posts are littered with incorrect statements, inconsistencies, contradictions, and more. It's amazing.

Again, just because something in the game is a bug doesn't mean it is going to be classified as an exploit and there are plenty of examples of long standing bugs like this in the past that took a very long time to fix.

First you are upset I called it a bug and now you are upset I am not calling it an exploit?

What if the ability to zone and clear it was intended because back when OOC timers were implemented the average player with the average computer on the average internet connection was going to take several minutes to zone anyway?. So zoning out and back in was going to take much longer than todays players with lightning fast internet and much better computers than EQ requires.

Maybe zoning wasn't an advantage until technological progress made it one?

I think this is actually a genuine possibility. But no matter whether the workaround is intended or its a bug does not change the reality that a 5 minute timer that prevents the casting of certain spells and limits HP/Mana/Endurance regen to combat values is artificially slowing down gameplay.

I still think adding a script tied to the opening of the chest at the end of an event that clears all combat timers and fully restores HP/Mana/Endurance is a good way to continue to prevent OOC regen during events, while also making the recovery time after an event feel much better.

I don't remember the average computer taking multiple minutes to zone back in that era which includes camping out and back into the game. Also if it was intended wouldn't they be clearing the timer on the screen when you did it?

I can speak from experience that computers/internet for many people took minutes to zone. It was quite a number of years before I could ever afford an average or better computer and connection for EQ and I knew others in the same situation.

As far as clearing the timer, possibly. I wasn't playing EQ when TSS and the OOC timer were added to the game so I can't tell you for sure the state of the game, etc. If a lot of the class tuning and whatnot took place after that, perhaps a 5 minute timer wasn't even enough to bother players at that point in time. It's possibly just the last however many years of power creep and constant redo type exposure that most players have started to feel it slowing down the game?

I don't remember it taking minutes to zone.

Thats great. Its a good thing your recollection of events does not dictate reality. Some people may have different experiences from you. Shocker, I know.

I feel like people are really trying hard to talk about everything but the relevant points here. It does not matter if the bypass of the raid timer is intentional or not. It does not matter if it took a long time to zone back in the day or not. What matters is the fact that a 5 minute timer after every raid encounter - win or lose - is restrictive to gameplay, when it doesn't have to be.

I can think of at least a few solutions to this problem off the top of my head. I have already posted about one possible solution in this thread. And rather than discussing the merits or flaws of that solution, people would prefer to argue about other things that do not get us closer to a solution to the problem laid out in the original post.

Got any evidence to show that people took a lot longer to zone back then? Also what does zone time way before OOC got added anyway? If it still took that long to zone as you claim you still wouldn't be recovering any faster.

Yes, there are likely several solutions to this but why would any of them use a bug as justification for the change?

Did you even read my post? I am very clearly making the point that the bug or whatever you want to call it is tangential to the matter at hand. It doesn't matter if its a bug or not. I am not trying to use the workaround as a justification for any change and I don't need evidence on how long it used to take to zone to accomplish my goal.

You are once again trying to argue a point that is inconsequential to the topic we are discussing, either because you are purposefully trying to derail this thread, or you just have no successful argument for or against changing the 5 minute timer, perhaps both.

Allow me to be as succinct as possible. The 5 minute raid timer adds unnecessary downtime following the completion of a raid event. It does not feel good and should be changed. Period.

You quite literally cannot understand the difference between exploiting and an exploit. If you simply cannot grasp the differences between a verb and a noun, just stop replying. It's of no use.

What I am saying is that IF it is a bug, people are EXPLOITING that bug. Exploit (THE VERB) is a blanket word with the meaning "to take advantage of something for personal gain." For example: I exploited the forests natural resources to build a cabin. For some reason, you are arguing the point that this bug isn't an exploit. Good for you if you think so, that's literally not the discussion.

Now, with that hopefully cleared, why would devs recommend using the "workaround" to circumvent the ooc timer? Either reduce it because it doesn't serve the intended purpose OR fix the bug. All it does is needlessly annoy people trying to recover resources and introduce pointless timesinks.

And before you go back to the "devs had better things to do"....for 2 decades? Really? Because that's how long it's been around. Nowhere in 17 years could any dev fixed it? They were all busy 24/7/365 for 17 years straight? I have a hard time believing that.

Not sure what your point is, I have made several posts suggesting that the arguments should be focused on the impact that the OOC timer has on the game and not the bug. My posts in this has been focused on calling the ability to avoid the timer a bug and not if the timer should be adjusted or not.