Raiding is far too easy and too predictable.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Strawberry, Dec 3, 2023.

  1. Strawberry Augur

    "We raid monday to thursday, from 08.00 to 10.30."

    What is wrong with this statement.

    Well, it's boring isn't it. A podiatrist would say that. You don't want to go on a date with someone who says they are available on weekdays from 8 to 10.

    Raiding in EQ has so many safety nets that it has become one of the least exciting and challenging gameplay loops of EQ.

    In fact, raid events are so easy, predictable and reproducible that most people who raid can log in within predetermined time slots and are otherwise never to be seen in the game world.

    Travel to and from events has become meaningless with banners. EQ encounters are not randomized in any way. Location of these encounters is not randomized. Spell effects and abilities are not randomized. Resurrection by priests during events is unlimited. No loss of gear is possible.

    EQ raids lack challenge, lack randomness, they turn players into zombies and have taken away any sense of adventure, risk and excitement.
    Brontus likes this.
  2. FranktheBank Augur

    So is your 'solution' random length raids? Because that has never gone over well. In WoW, there was a raid a few years ago called Stone Legion Generals that essentially had some RNG. The mechanics would change based on how slow/fast you killed the mob. It was HORRIBLY regarded, because when you are farming a boss for the 3rd+ month in a row, you dont want to relearn the fight every week.

    I agree that the raiding in eq is pretty mid, but I think that's mainly because it's a single person designing almost all of them, rather than the things you listed.

    EQ needs a faster ways to regroup after a wipe. Less med time, less rebuff time, less pet prepping.
    Trolgar and yodo like this.
  3. Strawberry Augur

    It should feel like an adventure, not filling out a document with checkboxes.

    You should not be porting to an event and get something handed to you on a platter. It is way too predictable currently.

    Let the adventurers walk over a trail, let the floor collapse from under them at random, throwing them into an unpredictable encounter below. When opening a chest with loot, allow these chests to contain surprise events. Allow mobs to necro themselves when raids turn into a night cycle. Allow bargaining with monsters by giving up gear for unpredictable rewards. etc
    Brontus and Nennius like this.
  4. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    How bout we just get rid of raids altogether? I mean you wanted to get rid of tradeskills!
  5. Strawberry Augur

    Raids aren't nearly as bad as tradeskills. They just lack the ingredients to turn them into individual adventures that are memorable.
  6. jiri_ Augur

    I think it's partly because of beta testing and everyone knowing and practicing the mechanics before they launch. Obviously beta testing is a good and necessary thing and I'm not advocating for a change to the system, but when people think of the Great Raiding Accomplishments of Yore, they're thinking of two things: raids that had mysteries that players had to figure out without the benefit of beta testing or dev tips, and classic planar-Velious raids that fall pretty firmly in the Type 2 Fun category. Because there aren't surprises, accomplishment is more about the basic Did Enough People Show Up / Do They Have Enough Gear / Do They Have Enough AAs / Did They Download the GINA Package / Did They Follow the Emote checks and less about emergent strategy or spontaneous problemsolving.
    Brontus likes this.
  7. Ythera Augur

    Sounds like you'd prefer some sort of rogue-like game where you can face out of scope enemies and it's very random what it'd throw at you at any given time.
  8. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Some raids in EQ are pretty easy, yeah. Some are not. If you think they're too easy, try leading some of the difficult ones in their appropriate eras. Pillars of Alra, Plane of War, Drusella's Vault, Trial of Creation, A Cunning Plan (Lichen Creep), Mearatas. Have you ever successfully led any of those raids at their intended level? If not, you should challenge yourself more. Mischief server is just about to hit Underfoot content, and UF through TBL has most if not all of EQ's most difficult raid content. Since the raids are so easy, you should have no issue stepping in as a leader for them!
    Metanis and Wyre Wintermute like this.
  9. Angahran Augur

    So basically you want 54 people wandering around a zone hoping to trigger some random event with no clue what the event is going to be?
  10. FranktheBank Augur

    There are a lot of people, myself included, that dislike the current event dz system. Unfortunately, they have never chosen to go back to the sort of clears like Anguish, Demiplane, Convorteum, etc. I think those are incredibly fun to mix trash clear +raid bosses.

    You are describing a rogue-like... not an mmorpg. Raids, especially in EQ, require an investment of time for a large quantity of players. Now you want to be like "tonight when you do Under Siege, the bridge will randomly explode and you will be doing a completely different event."
    Wyre Wintermute and Trolgar like this.
  11. FranktheBank Augur

    Ya I mostly agree. If given the choice between mystery + broken events or mostly functional + known, I would choose the latter.
    Wyre Wintermute and Trolgar like this.
  12. Strawberry Augur

    Yes, a memorable adventure where Alice discovers Underland. Where monsters wander and don't wait for you to knock on their door, where daytime turns to night and brings out more challeging creatures with higher rewards. Where monsters have a mind of their own, attack them and they will remember, gift them rare armor and they will fight alongside you. Make raids adventures.
    Nennius likes this.
  13. Conq Augur

    Raid end game with any open raid force. It's anything but predictable and easy. Sometimes, wins are so hard to come by, there is actual cheering in Discord.
    Conq
  14. FranktheBank Augur

    So you want to waste 50 people's time. Got it. Fantastic idea.
  15. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest

    Anguish style only as a multi-group 12+ content with mini bosses. No way would I want to clear trash to get to raid bosses.
    Yinla likes this.
  16. FranktheBank Augur

    To each their own. I really love the clearing through 1 DZ. Like a castle or something, climbing to the top or getting to the basement to reach a final boss. Also, I really hate the one shot DZ things we get on live.
  17. Strawberry Augur

    Wasting people's time is having to wait 30 minutes for 54 people to log in, spending 15 minutes buffing, and having 5 minutes of gameplay where you burn down a mob in a static event. An event that is not memorable, because it is repetitive, predictable and there is no risk involved. An event where the driving force is loot and little else. That is wasting people's time.
  18. error Augur

    You can always challenge your guild to finish content faster. The challenge is there during the first few clears, same as every MMO - once you have the fight solved of course it's going to be easier to repeat. I don't know why you want randomness to be a factor on raids, that's like an anti-design.
  19. Zunnoab Augur

    You can't seem to make up your mind on whether a schedule is a good or bad thing. Because I assure you it does not need to take 45 minutes to set up for raids.
    Metanis and Wyre Wintermute like this.
  20. Strawberry Augur

    EQ has a minimal discovery phase, followed by repetition, farming the same content over and over, due to far too predictable mechanics and encounters. Near the end of an expansion, everyone on every server looks like a clone of one another, none has a story to tell.