Next TLP Proposal

interesting... so, do you have raw data on play times per a month of all the subscribed accounts? or is it just from your IMAGINATION? do you work in DPG? or DPG ever released the data to public?

I, like most experienced players, base their opinions on mainly observational information, for me from what I saw on Phinigel & from what I have read of other people's experiences from other servers basically all saying a similar thing. A very small handful actually have data to back up their assertions, though that's never been related to TLP player numbers in any kind of verifiable format.

12/8 has become the standard TLP unlock schedule because it is what has been proven to be most popular & most successful, this is from Ragefire onwards, the "Modern Era" of TLP servers since 2015 or so.

And since the dev team probably do have a good idea of the numbers playing and they choose the unlock schedules despite all of the variants that people have requested & suggested I am going to default to the position that they probably have a decent handle on what actually works.

The devs however are keen to try faster-unlock TLP & with good reason, because they need to have a certain number of servers available & throwing a fastball one in there every so often helps keep them below their cap of servers, while Selo & Vaniki were very fast I think a 8/6 unlock schedule will be tried at some point & probably prove to be a lot more popular than longer unlock or faster unlock TLP while likely still not being as popular as 12/8 TLP - but that's just my guess.

You also should consider the logistics of a TLP server that is running for 5+ years already getting bumped up to 10+ years with 24 week unlocks, it ties that server slot up to a very likely tiny population for a huge amount of time. Which is another reason why a Live server really would be a better option for long unlock fans.

If there is any room at all for a longer unlock server it might be one that stops at PoP & dumps everyone onto Agnarr after.

That sounds like a worse version of Oakwynd, sure it starts out with more bonuses but it will lose out in the long run.

Correct that a huge amount of people just reroll every TLP. I think you believe it's mutually exclusive and it's not. Attrition is the ultimate boss in EQ, regardless of the ruleset. The ruleset can slow down or accelerate attrition.

Well we have general data about High/Medium/Low, outside of some of the leaked population stuff last year.

Thank you for confessing that you don't have the numbers. To be fair, from now on, please add I think, I believe, I suppose, I insist, etc. before your comments. Claiming your own experience as fact is not the right attitude.

You call yourself an experienced player, but there are countless experienced players in a 25 year old game. You and the few around you are just a small minority. You are not a person who represents the general idea of experienced players, but rather you are just a person who imposes your personal interest as if it were the common opinion of the majority.

Even for me, I raided in the leading guild in the old EQ, and played on most servers, starting with the first progression server, Sleeper. Also, since I work in the business department of a game company, I can confidently say that I am a more expert than you when it comes to game services.

It is extremely ridiculous to interpret the voting results in TLPs before Phinny to mean that people want faster unlocking. AOC did not exist in the previous TLP. When the raid target spawned, all kinds of dirty dramas such as dps race, intentional train/harassment, etc. happened. All raid targets were monopolized by 1-2 guilds. People had no choice but voting yes to unlock the next expansion or quitting the game.

The game changer for TLP is not the unlock timer, but the AOC. Thanks to this, people can now raid and enjoy content at their own pace. The problem is that the timer is too short. Based on raiding 2-3 times a week, people can have only 1 toon suited in BIS in time and it requires quite a good luck on drops. If it is what DPG intended to see, yeah, be my guest.


If the unlock timer is long, it will take more than 10 years to go live, so that's not possible? So now, it's 5 years. do majority play all the way to the live for 5 years? Of course not. The expectation that people will go all the way to live is a ridiculous service plan. The new TLPs held every year prove how absurd this plan is.

Simply put, I hope DPG learns from the success of WoW Classic. If classic nostalgia is the core of the service, you must provide a service that matches it, and if you want user acquisition on the live server, you can provide a promotion that matches it. Or, if you want to make money by repeating the current one-year TLP, you can just do what you have been doing. Numbers will prove what is right.

In fact, the current unlock timer is the optimal cycle for krono farmers. When people lose interest and leave, a new TLP opens. I didn't box and only played one character, Necromancer, but in 1-2 months, I could earn enough kronos that I wouldn't be able to use up even if I play multiple accounts for decades. this game is free to play to me, and i think it is same with quite a lot of forum warriors.

But you are apparently?

Weird flex. Jr. Accountant for some garbage mobile gaming company does not give you street cred. Also how do you know where Skuz works?

Blizzard literally hired the people running EQ TLP to do WOW classic... Don't be surprised as WOW classic looks more and more like EQ TLP as the years ago by.

Ragefire has had voting + AOC for awhile now, and the notion of an unlock vote failing on new servers because AOCs exist is quite ridiculous and shows you don't have an ear to the ground of the TLP community.

What is your point besides another weird flex? Battling Kronos farmers doesn't seem to be something Darkpaw is interested in.

1. did I ever insist that my opinion be a general idea of majority, like Skuz does in public?

2. Jr. Accoundant for blablas... so typical response of ppl w/o logics. thanks for revealing your intelligence and personality levels. do I know what Skuz does for living? no. not even interested. do you?

3. what's the point of the statement that Blizzard hired ppl who ran EQ TLPs? are you insisting that Blizzard hired ppl from DPG because they accomplished great result in eq TLPs?

4. did Ragefire have AoC from the beginning? lol

5. I'm just pointing out that royal followers of the current "standard timer" can be krono farmers =P

Yes? They literally print money for the company.

Here's an idea....
A.N.Other ruleset... don't care, it's all been done before.

However....
No all access membership requirement.... but to play you must consume a krono ever month.
Let's get those krono working as intended instead of currency and get them out of the system

More TLP people play content past POP than those who don't. The recycler numbers get outnumbered heavily by those who stay behind to continue.

Not many people want slow unlocks. It's horrible. People will be bored of classic by week 4 and you expect them to want to stick around another 12-20 weeks? DOA server

I don't think this is accurate. According to a couple different Youtube videos / online sleuthing, the top EQ TLP, Oakwynd, only has about 1500 characters logged in on any given day, with #2 Mischief chiming in at around 750, and every other TLP sub-500.

The very slow unlocking Project Quarm emulative server has something like 1500 individual players online at any time, while P99 green and blue maintain about another 1000 combined. That's 2500 "slow paced classic EQ players".

The difference is, P99 / Quarm are very locked down in terms of cheating / exploiting - which is what I feel like people actually want.

At this point, however, it sounds like maybe DPG understands that they have completely lost the "true classic" crowd and are trying to appease who they have left.

P99 and quarm are also free, so keep that in mind when comparing. We are also talking about the attrition rate, which doesn't matter for people who want early Era locked content or reroll no matter what the cookie cutter server rules are (oakwynd)

I would definitely love longer unlocks myself. I just don't have time to devote to EQ on a consistent basis. With a Free-Trade ruleset it would be fantastic.

I'll still 'rinse and repeat' on TLPs on occasion. I just enjoy playing without any particular goal really, but I know I'd stick around longer with more time in each XPAC.

With the current speed of TLPs, EQ is fun but not quite as 'immersive'. I think it is particularly moreso that way with people who play a couple alts and like to get into Tradeskilling for fun. Often, I'll forego getting too deep into Tradeskills because I know I won't be on the server long enough to warrant it.

By the time we are full on with cold weather and I'm inside and gaming more - current TLPs will be at Luclin, which is fine - I like that XPAC. But it would be super cool if say just Velious was starting up now or something.

Problem for me is - outside a lot during warm months. Since the TLPs are always on the same schedule, I end up at the same place all the time. Just once I'd like a slow TLP where I can get into the game, drag my feet, and stick around for a while.

See - the other side of the coin is when GoD hits. Often as it's starting to warm back up. Then my interest in EQ wanes quickly.. and I'll just fall behind in the summer too much to keep up with a pace of GoD+ raids and such.

And the 'locked' servers be they official or private just aren't what I want either. I would seriously love a slow paced TLP - and then eventually just stick with it to Live EQ.

Keep in mind - new players and older players who haven't been in this game a while might very well want that also. The pace is a bit too fast for many brand new players I suspect.

Imagine what it would be like being 60 for 3 expansions with crazy long unlocks. At least at 70 you have a ton of stuff you can do. How many times can we do Trak / VP / VS before everyone quits?

You mean the Youtube channels that just add up General chats and think thats the entire population?

servers are free, so all the brokechucks can roll up with zero commitment. You want to compare the month old Quarm to a month old TLP? Lol servers have their place, for the idiot bad brains who want to try to live in the past, but don't act like they are commanding any respect.

Sure, there are people that will be left behind. I think people also overestimate the time commitment.

For me, time commitment relates to the balance between real life and gaming along with what I like to do in the game.

For many I suppose that is a linear path from start to raiding. But I kinda like to take in the atmosphere, maybe do spots that aren't the best XP, but different. Take a couple days to farm mats for tradeskills or whatever.

So it's subjective. I just chimed in to say there are some of us who do support slower TLP unlocks.

Slower TLP unlocks have less than zero % chance of happening. It's not the DPG business model. TLPs are designed for players with some considerable experience, and the time available to keep up the pace. Casual players are all pointed to Live servers, where you can play exclusively old-school content if you like, and at your own pace. You can leave for months at a time if RL intrudes, and come back to exactly where you left off. TLPs are not going to wait for you. Period. Full stop.

Not directly, but neither did Skuz. Your post was framed in the same manner his was, making you a hypocrite.

You are the one that brought up your lofty position in the gaming business world while at the same time using that position to invalidate Skuz. Now all of a sudden you are not interested in anyone's position in the gaming business world? Then why flaunt yours?

yes? Why else would Blizzard hire them to do literally the exact same job over at their company - because they sucked at the job?

No, but they have had AOC +Voting and never failed a vote, but I can see how you only view Ragefire though the "OMG MAGEFIRE" lens. Let's put Ragefire aside and stick to the part I said where no modern TLP would ever fail a progression vote had voting never gone away. It just would not happen. If you talk to the TLP community on a regular basis and spend time in some guilds up and down the spectrum of hardcore to casual you would know this.

OK great, but in the context of needing different timers, you aren't saying why you are pointing that out.

Feel free to point out specifically which experiences I have claimed to be facts.

Well, thank you Captain Obvious, you are the superhero we needed and you clearly arrived just in time to rescue everyone from my hubris!

If you mean forum users, well aren't you here too? Among the minority, part of the minority yourself.
Do the words "Pot & Kettle" in that format mean anything to you?

When the argument is lost, the loser resorts to slander. Or in your case before you have even made a counter argument worth bothering to read.

Oh well, thank you for elaborating on your verifiable EverQuest credentials and your business qualifications, you will be providing us with a link to your Linkedin Profile soon I take it so we can all see the factual basis for your declaration of what an expert you are?
Once I can verify these immutable facts I shall definitely be listening closely to your expert "business department of a gaming company" opinions.

Where did I do that Mr Expert? Care to point it out seeing as you place so much importance on credible sources?

There were 5 main Raiding Guilds at the start of Kunark, Twisted Legacy were the big Hardcore US Guild Apocalypsis, Darkwynd, Rosengarde, Canadian Forces were attempting to be competitive but
Twisted Legacy had everything locked down for the first month or so then there was some rotation BS that lasted a couple of weeks maybe and then Rosengarde & Darkwind started getting competitive for targets as TL started losing interest/getting bored. Apocalypsis were having numbers issues & wiped out multiple times losing their targets at times to other guild's zoning in.

People don't really know how unlocks affect the way the server progresses, and any vote-locking server has been subjected to off-server hasslers who plop a character on there just to mess with the system, at times this has been done deliberately by entire guilds. This explicitly happened on Fippy from what I recall.

I wasn't a fan of the Voted-unlock system due to that vulnerability even after measures were put in place to address the off-server harassment.

That said, as I recall most of the votes passed right away anyway and it took a majority for that.

But they still had a choice, and if they wanted to bore the elitist jerks to death all they had to do was keep voting no, they would have left.

Nobody needs to be full BIS in one expansion to tackle the next expansion, this was proven as a fallacy by Selo TLP, the raiders there were overall even less well equipped than Phinigel raiders and the few guilds there didn't fail to progress due to gear, they failed due to player numbers. Phinigel guilds similarly failed due to player numbers far more than lacking full BIS geared players.

12/8 was plenty of time for a well-organised raiding team to gear enough to tackle the next expansions, all the way from Classic up to CoV at least - the overall criteria was large enough numbers of players & those players actually paying attention.

It is far more unlikely to achieve what the purpose of a TLP is, that being a tour-de-force of the Everquest expansions experienced at a faster than it was originally pace, from the starting point up to the server catching up to Live servers, whereupon those characters are merged with a live server hopefully improving that server's population, though so far that population sticking with live after their TLP ends has been tiny.

Also you might not be aware that currently EverQuest has a Cap on how many servers it has available to run, likely to do with the package they have with their server-host/provider. Rizlona & Aradune were delayed because of this cap, there had to be several server-merges before the company could re-purpose the merged servers into those 2 TLP and the dev team/coders had to get the server-merge software working before they could do that as it had stopped working sometime prior to that.

TLP server slowly decline with age, so far at a rate of around 1-3 guilds collapsing per expansion unlock, this is based on the thousands of people not posting anything about wanting long unlock servers & only maybe 5-10 people a year or less asking for this in my experience of the forum, PvP fanatics have more people posting on the forums than this and there are maybe 10-20 of them total.

But let's take a slow unlock server which would have lower popularity anyway - what if a single guild remains by PoP? Is it fine to kick that guild off the server when they planned to go to live? Look at Coirnav for an example of how that pans out.
Which server do they get dumped on? Live? Way to crap on that guild's players.

The alternative is locking that single server up for 10+ years, which is impractical due to that server cap I explained earlier. EQ does not have the room to spin up as many servers as they like, their budget does not allow for it and the deal they have is probably some "package" of servers and the next tier in that package isn't 25 servers but 50 or something rather than just being able to spin up one or two extra servers and pay a small amount extra they'd have to step up to the next tier package of servers and make almost no use of all that extra headroom at a significantly larger cost.

WoW recruited Holly Langdale (Windstalker) to run their CLassic Server (TLP) operation based on the success/strength of EQ TLP's. They later recruited Prathun as a Developer, former EQ dev team Lead. EQ doesn;t need to learn anything from WoW Classic, they taught them about the benefit of the TLP idea already.

Krono farmers go where the players, their customers, go.

The belief that players will even start in decent numbers on a long unlock server is naieve at best, and they will get bored & quit long before a new TLP server opens & that's lost business.
The pace of the standard unlock TLP holds players a lot better because it pumps *new* content out on a schedule fast enough to hold their interest better but not so fast that they cannot keep up.

This is not experience stated as fact, it's just fact, the evidence is all of the TLP in the Modern era and how they have succeeded & failed. If you had been paying enough attention since 2015 this would be obvious to you.

Seasonal players like yourself will never be happy with the pace of any TLP server, you will always be left behind when you abandon the game for however long doing whatever you do in the warmer months. It doesn't matter if it is 1 month, 2 month, 3 month, 6 month, 9 month unlocks the rest of your guild or server is not going to be taking the same time off you do, unless they were all in your family perhaps.

Live server you could probably just about keep up, in a family guild, but in a raiding guild you would likely lose your spot because seasonal players are the absolute bane of any Raid leader's existence.
Raid guild's live or die on the consistency of their players, they can survive on 4, 3, 2, or 1 raid day a week EVERY week with a regular force who show up every week, maybe a week or 2 off for a vacation here & there. A good number will always have a handful of players who are known "seasonal" raiders they might tolerate, if its a player who is also a fantastic raid leader they might get cut a little extra slack if they return in time to gear up themselves and be available for the main progression push early in the year and can leave the "farming phase" to other Raid Leaders while they take their seasonal break.
However, if you are in a raid guild with a LOT of seasonal players, it's chances of survival are very bad, it depends on "regulars" to hold that raid guild together cohesively, to be the glue of the guild, a lot of seasonals in a guild is as good as a death sentence.

Seasonal players would need a "seasonal Guild" or even a seasonal TLP that only ran during the Autumn(Fall) & Winter or something or a good few players who play on the same schedule they do annually, anything else and they are either there out of the good will of a guild or in a position of being very fortunate &/or priviliged.