Test Update 07/11/2023 - Patch Notes and Discussions

It's a bit annoying to have so many calling for additional nerfs on top of this patch that is already a decent nerf to mage. There are a lot of classes able to do the same damage and a lot more that need buffs more than they need mages nerfed twice in a row.

Ultimately, the Many nerf just misses the mark with what it's trying to accomplish, at least at higher level play.

Mages are probably the most balanced class in the game currently. Their dps is quite weak on its own compared to other casters, but is heavily influenced by adps, as they can soak adps or double/triple dip from more sources than other casters. This brings them up to 2nd most potential dps in around 80% of raid situations. In about 10% of situations they are indeed #1, and in 10% they are below 2nd (most notably being 1-4 mob boss burns). They are generally not extremely higher than the myriad of "situationally 3rd" classes (Wiz, Bst, Dru, Shm, Rng, Rog).

The main reasons for the "mage is OP" calls is due to their ease of simplification/automation. A big secondary thing is that their pets tank extremely well (which isn't relevant to raiding). A third, potentially over-tweaked thing is their Beams, but this is well within the realm of normal dps parameters for non-melee classes and AE damage is fine being their bailiwick.

As stated above, they only particularly struggle in an optimized setting versus single or low numbers boss burns, which this nerf will further exacerbate. I understand that the whole purpose of this patch is to reduce swarmpet numbers, and the incentive to spawn a lot of swarmpets simply for the use of Many, so it does make sense to reduce the effectiveness of the spell as well, but it just feels a bit tone deaf to the actual balance issues at play.

Additionally, as Sancus has stated, this does not affect top level raiding dps of a mage by a large amount. It does, however, affect lower tier raiding at a higher proportion, as lower tier guilds tend to focus on reducing numbers of adds and as such their mages rely on sustained single target dps more than Beams.

All this nibbling around mage power…. Class balance demands that you do poor raid dps compared to classes that cannot solo named and missions. You haven’t come anywhere near the comeuppance the class deserves. That necros and other dot classes haven’t had their comeuppance yet is no defense.

At this point it is more appropriate to fix the outliers than to revamp everyone else….. obviously.

Or we can all wake up From our stupidity and stop not being a mage also!

The only part i disagree with here, is how you stated your non adps dps is one of the lowest of the casters. I know from a wizard perspective your in way better shape for base damage than we are and we are pure DD casters. Thats all carry on!

I think each class has its own purpose and just because I am a wizard I am not entitled to be top dps. I think wizard is close to being balanced, once we get to a point to where no class except maybe a zeker can out punch me on a burn on either AE or single target, then I am happy and the wizard imo is balanced.

The wizard is not designed to be sustained dps kings in any capacity, we come to the party to blow stuff up and move on. Our mage friends want us to do this and then they take over.

Stop nerfing mages, fix the rest of us, you almost have wizard done a few more tweaks left. Leave my mage friends alone!! haha.

True but also Enhanced Decay and similar AAs were re-turned earlier in the year. That was the adjustment to DoT classes. People tend to have selective memory when it comes to this stuff. The devs just don't seem to have time to make a lot of changes at one time so they get spread out over the year. And just like with Enhanced Decay this is small/needed change that nobody will be talking about a month from now.

It would be a lot easier if we all assimilated. As most all alt bots already have. Daybreak can’t touch the new mage accounts now, They’ve become too large to fail.

At least that change got a "Enhanced Decay (and equivalent) AAs have slowly but surely increased DoT damage at an untenable rate, leading us into a situation where DoTs are outperforming just about everything else in far more scenarios than intended. We've adjusted these AAs to ensure that they can continue to receive healthy upgrades for the foreseeable future.", leaving no room for speculation about the intent. The mage change is just a footnote tacked onto a change to appease TLP players of a specific era, leading to the question of whether any thought went into it at all or if it was just the result of some normalization script a dev wrote up.

I know live mages are upset but as a Mischief mage I would like to say thank you so much for proposing to fix this spell line for the TLP mages. It seems appropriate for this and the next few expansions and I can't wait to get to use it on raids.

*ducks the incoming barrages of many*

What do you say this change is trying to accomplish? The way I see it they are just reducing the number of swarm pets in order to help reduce lag and the changes are just part of that.

You see it as a footnote. That doesn't mean the devs see it that way.

I may be missing what you are talking about, but if it's the of many damage change in this patch that won't change swarm pet casts at all.

I think almost everyone(on live) was ok with the previous patch changing the swarm AA numbers down but keeping the damage similar and reducing of many pet requirements, aside from the issues with TLP lower level of many that has been an outlier for years. I believe Sancus has made some posts explaining that spell's issue much more in depth than I could.

And I would argue that the recent changes in this patch are in response to changes from the last patch the reduced the number of swarm pets and the damage on the spell.

So a group with pet classes and raid mages dps stayed the same after last patch the only increase was to people with less pets and that needs a 20k base spell damage nerf? It seems a bit harsh of a response for the minor dps gain some group situations saw.

All I am saying is that the goal of the changes has been to reduce lag with the reduction of the number of swarm pets. I am not saying anything about the adjustment to damage itself.

Ok. It makes sense to reduce the pets for lag I just don't think this patch is necessary or plays any part in the lag.

Playing at 1920x1080 resolution, whenever you try to buy something from a vendor who has more than one of that item in stock, the Quantity Window will open at the very bottom of the screen with the Accept button not showing. So, the window has to be dragged up to reveal the button. The UI will not remember where the player put the quantity window, so this has to be done EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. you do something with a vendor. Is this a bug? With the UI conversion in such a mess of a state overall, it's hard to tell what the intention is here.

Back to the Aug's here; I'm hoping I'm not reading it wrong, but it sounds like that list of augments will now be useable in the Charm/Range slots? If that's right, then that's awesome. There aren't a lot of aug's useable in those slots anymore; at least from recent expansions or anniversary content..

Yes, looking at the list it's 1 line of augments but the previous expansion is still very strong so should be a good couple options for everyone to fill range/charm now. A good change.