Constructive criticism regarding recent ban waves.

People on Aradune are getting busted for breaking the box number rule and/or using an automation program.

Some blablah was going on in general about it being AFK check bans. Those folks are lying.

Last year you could have said this, but they've done 5? waves in 2022, so I think the tonal shift is that its not accepted now.

It would not be possible for me to muddy the waters more than DPG has by creating an extremely broad cheating policy ( https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-constitutes-as-cheating.281242/ ), banning people without stating the reason and banning people for discussing it on the forum. Presumably they do this by design as part of the arms race so that when a banwave happens the cheat community can't parse out which pasta got them caught riding dirty.

Below is a pic of EQ players trying to figure out which third party applications are safe to use.


Personally I'm glad to see them taking action even if I disagree with the approach. I just hope I don't banned for using the third party apps that I've been publicly posting videos of me using and helping folks use on these forums for years.

Every suspension wave there is a few common things discussed on the forums

• What constitutes cheating or what programs are considered cheating (look deep inside yourself and you know what is and isn't.)
• Wrongful suspensions (impossible to determine if there is any validity to this)
• Suspensions for using things like Gina / Gamparse (highly unlikely and impossible to confirm)
• Same bot groups that everyone complains about still botting (can be confirmed, and frequently is on youtube)

Would it be possible to create a TLP server where Krono is not player tradeable? If your answer to this is no and you have an argument against it see my point #4 above.

I think a lot of "pro-cheat" players over-estimate how popular those programs are. If DBG made a server where it was explicitly allowed, I think that server would fade away pretty quickly.
Most of the programs that are banned are only popular, because they give you an edge over other players on the same server who don't use them. If everyone on the server used those programs, then the game would not be the game that DBG had in mind. DBG simply has a different vision for the game than you do.

Bazaar introduced an "offline trader"-mode, because it was a feature that improved the game. I can't imagine DBG will ever introduce an "offline grinder"-mode.
And if DBG wanted you to see mobs on the map, they would have added that as a toggle on the ingame-map, they didn't. There is also a reason why they won't improve auto-follow, it is because they want to discourage large-scale boxing. Boxing is meant to be difficult.

This is not possible as krono are an account wide feature that apply to every server and game. At best this would just move krono trades to a different server and increase the number of people who get scammed in krono related trades. Removing krono isn't going to solve any problem it will just move krono related trades to other servers or back to the 3rd party websites that they are meant to combat.

Player gets suspended for aimbot in an FPS game.

Player claims he was really using a 3rd party crosshair.

Player argues that the rules aren't clear.

You're right, Rizlona wasnt a top 3 population server or anything.

MOST people arent being nefarious. They just want an easier time boxing (especially if you are only talking about KVM software).

Fair enough, I forgot about how evasive that Krono is.

Fixed

People still get around the issue of items being non-tradable and sell them with krono or other means. This would still just move krono trades to other servers and the farmers would just sell looting rights and invite the buyers to their group. It is pretty much impossible to keep players from selling items or looting rights to other players and trying to prevent it can just make it easier for people to get scammed.

This is of course ignoring the high possibility that server would be very unpopular.

Not only that, the bad players that use those program for the advantage would be bad again just like the other baddies stuck on the bot server.

Now that you mention it: Great idea.

The real solution:

Ditch these Truebox rules. It's dumb and causes nothing but problems - but wait, here me out before going craycray on me.

Actually encrypt your data, and put real dev work into blocking <You Know What Softwares, theres only really 2>.

Truebox only came about because people were able to mass box with the assistance of those softwares.

This is a very sad and frustrating trend among players in various video games. The fact that they even have the gall to ask such a question.

Let's be honest here. In 1999 we knew what cheating was. We knew what exploiting was. We knew what software was allowed and what wasn't. But for some reason in 2022, we forgot?

So I noticed this trend in other games, even non-MMORPGs where someone will get banned or suspended and play the 'dumb card' and state they didn't know this or that was against the rules. That the rules were too vague, that they didn't understand them, and that they need more clarification.

Here's the truth. The OP I just quoted, isn't dumb. He's not stupid. He's not naive. He's smart, he has forethought, and is a bit clever... maybe not as clever as they think. But good enough. Unfortunately he has an agenda. That agenda is painfully clear.

They don't actually expect a response from Daybreak. Hell this post was made a bit AFTER Daybreak declared they wouldn't make a whitelist. They want to muddy the waters to avoid getting caught. Its well known that to get caught requires a complaint. Reduce the complaints and you reduce the bans/suspensions.

You reduce the complaints by a few methods. One of these ways is doubt. Cause doubt in the players mind that Daybreak does anything and they'll be less likely to bother with a report. Good idea actually if you think about it. There is a common mentality across all games of "X company won't actually do anything." Or in this case, "Daybreak gets krono sales from all these cheating boxes, so why would they want to stop that money?" Casting doubt works very well, I see it all the time in groups that players don't like to report because they do think its futile.

Well this thread and other's like it are proof that isn't true. Link to it whenever someone has doubt. When cheaters complain, you know something is working.

Another way and what this thread's intent is. Is to muddy the waters. Comparing maphacks and other tools to parsers and audio triggers for example. The idea here is to try and equate these things to being similar in some vain attempt to get people to associate all external programs with detriments they have on the game. This is sort of related to the first method above as again, it casts doubt.

They continue this by trying to continue the discussion about 'why x program is legit over y?' Don't bother with that. They know the answer. They are being disingenuous with their arguments. They don't believe in their own arguments.

As I said, they are not stupid. They are not dumb. They are not naive. They are quite smart and clever. But like I said, not as clever as they think. The trick is to understand what they are doing and knowing that they aren't as ill-informed as they claim to be.

A cheater is a cheater, an exploiter is an exploiter. Report them as you see them in game and let Daybreak sort it out. As you see more and more of these threads, take heart in the fact that such efforts ARE working.

Don't even bother engaging these people in arguments. Not worth the time, not worth the effort. Point and laugh instead. Relish in their bans and suspensions. Take satisfaction in it. Your experience in Everquest or any game this happens in is made better by their removal. Never forget that.

Software titles are irrelevant. Software functions are allowed/disallowed irrespective of title. It's a policy to ensure that banned actions are enforceable regardless of cosmetic changes.

Example 1:

1. Software A: Provides map hack to see location of all NPCs by sniffing network packets.
2. Daybreak bans Software A.
3. Players use Software A and get banned for it.
4. Developer of Software A changes name of software to Software B.
5. Players begin to use Software B until that title gets banned.
6. Etc.

Example 2:

1. Software A: Provides map hack to see location of all NPCs by sniffing network packets.
2. Daybreak bans all software that sniff network packets.
3. Players use Software A and get banned for it.
4. Developer of Software A changes name of software to Software B.
5. Players use Software B and get banned for it.
6. Etc.

Quoted for truth. This is a well thought out and well written rebuttal to the obfuscation embedded in this thread.

In game-design, one of the ways to tune the difficulty of the game, is to put restrictions on output and input. Not showing monsters on maps is an example of restrictions on output. Only allowing a single keypress to affect one char, is a restriction on player-input.
The game was designed with these restriction in mind, altering those restriction will alter the difficulty of the game into something the developers do not intent.

As for GINA, it is a program that as input takes a log-file, and outputs something to the user(audio or sound). The devs controls the content of the logfile, and therefore the devs controls the limitations of GINA directly. If there was something GINA did that the developers don't like, the devs can just change the content of the log-file. Every bit of data in the logfile is "whitelisted" by the devs, it is output we are allowed to use.

it is neither true nor well tought out.

the amount of virtualization and broadcasting software I use in my every day-to-day work as sys admin would make a hundred light go red at DPG despite none of them being related to gaming. As one poster above said, DPG would ban people just for having VMBox or docker installed on their CPU.

nobody disputing wether or not using M Q 1+1 ability to warp around zone is cheating or not, what we're discussing is wether or not I can remote into another computer to control EQ on that computer.

and no, back in 1999 the situation wasn't clear either... and the problem isn't unique to EQ either : in FF have an history with stuff as simple as DPS meter, and the WoW dev team have to tweak their api every year because someone find a way to make something too powerfull with WeakAuras.

And most of all, DPG is apparently unable to stop krono farmer / obvious mage bot camping random stuff for weeks without moving , but wreck havoc amongst regular user who 3-box.

If they are unable to stop them with 1 week suspensions, they should issue permanent bans.

and they will be back with a fresh account in no time.

doesnt take that much effort to PL a new 50 naked mage

Darkpaw could issue a permanent IP or credit card ban.

Furthermore, repeated bans will force the cheater to lose either his monthly sub for TLP ($15 USD) and/or expansion purchase ($35 USD). At some point, it will be unsustainable for the serial cheater.