Allow DRU/SHM To Complete Heal: A Easy Balance Change For Early EQ Health

shaman heal just fine

This is True. The only reason to even play a Cleric is because they are OP'ed in healing. If they took that away from the Cleric, they would have to completely redesign the Cleric class to operate different and/or preform some other roles as well as healing.

Also, hate to break it to you but this game has been out 22 years, nothing truly radical is ever going to happen at the TLP level. In fact the entire reason for a TLP is to play the original game but with a few twists to liven it up.

None of that is relevant to this suggestion. You are talking about an era of EQ far after Cheal is relevant

This is not relevant as the topic is about raiding clerics. No one should be using cheal in group content except to heal charm pets. I agree on the group front the classes are fine

A change to Cheal would not affect any of that as you are speaking to eras after cheal is retired. niether druids not shamans have the ability to heal tanks taking raid mobs for any sort of sustainable duration without 5-6 clerics chealing in your Velious-PoP eras.

I used to box a druid when POP was in era on live. He would be in the CH rotation just fine with their ghetto heal. They can easily be included in the CH rotation in Luclin/POP with their renewal lines. Is it as effective as CH? No, but it's good enough.

One of the most egregious things devs did in early eras was try and force druids to be something they aren't. A healing-first focused class. It was the definition of insanity as they keep attempting to fit a square peg in a circled hole. Druids are a support and dps class. Please do not request things that further build upon the terrible design that devs continually failed at and beat to death.

purify soul, group purify soul, and most importantly, clerics wear plate and OG iksar model in plate is hawt.

What I took out of this is that druid with cheal is not game breaking. Though to be fair if I had it my way I would just delete cheal but there is too much raid content balanced around it. Adding cheal to druids and sham would just allow much more raid diversity and change little else. Cheal is only used for healing charm pets or raid healing

The argument for druids and shamans to have CH is as old as this game. CH is a curse. Druids actually do get a version of CH (Tunare's Renewal and Karana's Renewal). I remember the occasional druid being included in the CH rotation after that and they hated it. I don't think anyone likes CH rotations. Certainly no one who's in it. My oldest memories of raiding in EQ are of staring at a wall.

CH being phased out by Promised Renewal was probably one of the most important changes ever made to this game and the class. Although many guilds had stopped using CH rotations, some held on for way too long. People were comfortable with CH rotations and continued using them even when it was no longer necessary (due to stagnation of 7500 HP and improvements in their later heals).

If you give Druids and shaman equivalent heals as clerics. Why would anyone play a cleric? If they can heal the same you would pick a more versatile class.

Clerics would still have an arsenal of much more impressive heals over the other priests even without Cheal

What you should've taken out of it is that druids don't need a CH and continuing to pigeon hole them into a role they aren't made for is stupid. Devs failed to do it for about 6 years. Why add to that albatross of design?

I got to say the first time I ever tried out a druid I felt the same way and was like, "Wish they would just remove healing from the line up and give me more Support/DPS instead." It honestly just felt like healing ran counter to what the class should actually do.

No. I do not want CH or to be in CH rotations. Shamans and Druids are fine in classic. Quit being weird.

Not really a great reason. Think with this change you could play a cleric and not have to be in a cheal rotation.

You still don't get it.
1) You still have yet to provide even one example of 'other ways' to play a Cleric.

2) You agreed Clerics are not needed outside of Raids, and then proceed to want changes that will kill the need for Clerics in a Raid. Are you being willfully ignorant?

If you give Shamans and Druids CH, then there is no need for Clerics (plural) in a Raid, except for just ONE. That one Cleric allowed in the Raid, will be used to only Buff the tanks for AC/HP and Rez anyone that happens to die. That is all they will be used for. Congratulations, you just killed the Cleric class.

In an ideal world you should never "need" a particular class. While you may need a healer good game design would dictate you should be able to choose any healer. Each healer excels at their specific niche but no healer should ever not be viable and on the flip side no healer should be required. For example say all priests could cheal. On a raid like Talon Zek in PoTime instead of using clerics to cheal rot you could use your shamans/druids. This frees up the clerics to group heal through the huge amount of AoE damage Tallon puts out and the clerics can serve as protective support. Flip it over to AoW. You can keep your druids out of the cheal RoT and let the druids DPS with wolf pets and cold nukes. Not only are clerics the best group healers but the also have decent CC abilities with AoE stuns and roots. Clerics can also serve a DPS roll when engaging with undead targets. On top of all of that clerics can also serve as ramp tanks as they have access to the DA hammer and are more than capable to healing themselves through ramp.

The reality of the whole picture is that complete heal is quickly phased out and it nor anything like it exists for the majority of the entire game. The early game was designed with it in mind and after so many expansions, it itself began to limit their creativity for new content. So it was phased out at the proper time (same time frame as on current TLPs) and at a very player-friendly pace. Besides, how many expansions have an encounter or encounter(s) that utilize cheal heals out of complete necessity? Possibly: Kunark but not fully necessary IMO, Velious certainly has numerous encounters that require cheal chains (of which druids in place of clerics could suffice, shamans have a similar spell but not good for the chain and better on spot heals), Luclin has events that more-or-less require cheal chains though atleast half or more of all encounters are more suitable to be healed without a cheal chain. Then by PoP, there are 2-3 or 4 in PoTime where cheal chains are heavily relied on and also maybe 1 or 2 events in the progression through the planes to flag for Time. After PoP, the cheal chains are fully dead and should be.

Over and over we see posts like this on the boards, the TLP boards. About how a player feels that their class(es) is(are) being shafted or that others are being favored are are too OP(Overpowered). However, it seems that they don't quite realize that due to the evolution of the game over time, classes gained significant advantages in specific scenarios during particular eras. That made for a lot of fun for everyone over time. Anyway, the point is, is that if you are playing TLP and haven't played the game beyond early expansions or haven't played in many many years that all the OP Classes and Abilities lose those advantages in time via balancing as the expansions continue. All the while other classes receive boosting that makes them powerful in particular areas or situations and sometimes including upgrades that make them the new top dogs of their forte. In the end, over the years, most classes get their time in the light. Not always in the same way, by dps, or healing, or whatever. So, if you are on TLP, rest assured that In what frustrates you in EQ now will all change within a year-ish or less. Early EQ absolutely involved charming and is an integral part of a true immersive experience for the enchanter class. And to go through the trouble of charming there should be a reward, that being increasing their value to a group. But it has its glory days and then they just wander around looking for sympathetic groups that are nice enough to add them as a buff bot.

My 2nd box was a cleric in our cheal chains when we used them, and I supported on my shaman main. But I can speak from the true perspective of both classes exposed to the same conditions.

Cheal chains are a virtual necessity in velious but not required, (at the cost of extreme quantities of resources and increased risk if not using cheal chains, would never recommend doing so.) but shaman and druid can and should assist heals as necessary, or play in a cheal chain, like they can, if needed.
There are also cheal chains required in Luclin, however, without having shaman and druids patching, the event mechanics of numerous encounters would break down the cheal chain and lead to risky gaps. But by luclin I found myself doing far more support healing on the shaman than I had done prior.
By PoP, we very rarely used CH chains. A couple encounters in potime, but other than that our shamans and druids and clerics all healed tanks, with clerics focused on specific tanks and the other priests covering their groups and other non MTs.

Just by the description I've written you can see the extreme diversity of experiences where the spell is necessary as well as experiences that do not require it. So in reality, the necessity of the spell is far lower than expressed previously within this post. It is not any one-spell-covers-all sort of spell and has its' unique situational benefit through the course of it's existence. It alone doesn't even come remotely close to defining the cleric class but does have those times of necessity we've mentioned.

Regardless, druid and shaman are priest hybrids, they should not have tools that match those of the premiere healing class (cleric), or even remotely close. Nor should cleric have any of the unique shm/dru abilities/spells. Especially considering the unique tools shamans and druids receive as well as the tool kit available very early from their variety of spells.

This is a little contradictory with some of your previous statements. As many people have noted druids do receive a psudo-cheal at some point in the game. This erodes at the point that cheal is the clerics class defning ability. An ability like cheal which is a staple to defeating raid encounters should not be in addition a class specific ability. No class should have a unique ability that is required to defeat a raid and that is what cheal is making it poorly designed. Cleric are for more that just cheal but i do not think much of the community knows that because of how 1-dementional cheal makes clerics.