A radical idea

Wait, so we cannot point out when someone or something someone says is wrong now? If a person goes around claiming the Earth is flat, we cannot correct them??

It's amazing the lengths people will go rather than admit they were wrong.

That's not what you were trying to point out though, because I never said those games never released content, that's what you were trying to twist my words into saying because you're more concerned with arguing than the actual discussion.

Proving that "barely any updates" is in actuality "several updates a year" or even "monthly updates" for some of your examples clearly shows making blanket statements without having done your homework properly beforehand is a strategy prone to failure.

Sometimes it is better to stop digging the hole you are in before you lose sight of why you started.

Wow, this thread is ridiculous.

If the 2 options for 1 year of dev time are create expac for TLP or create expac for Live, the financial choice is Live, every time.

TLP players have this way of inflating their own value where they actually believe they are more important than Live.

You could make an expac for TLPs, sure, but when a huge portion are millers who will reroll regardless, anyone could see how that would be a waste. Let's use a year of dev time for content less than half the player base will see.

As far as content, CoV is content light, yes. Most people are giving them a somewhat of a pass, due to Covid and losing a few key staff members. ToV and TBL I don't feel are as content starved. ToV was but the massive TS ear quest came out after launch, so it was a mini content patch.

And like I said before, Hunter Achievements isn't an update. Bug fixes aren't an update. That's the kind of stuff that happens even in games in maintenance mode. It is the absolute minimum that an online service game will get.

There's nothing wrong with the Live community settling for absolute minimum (aside from those "expansions" of course), but if you have to convince yourself that it's anything other than absolute minimum, you might want to ask yourself why you'd do that. Sounds like the hole is actually elsewhere?

At this point you can pretty much ignore the original topic, as it hasn't been the topic pretty much since the start and only the OP has asked for it, of which only 2 posts are his in the 9 page thread.

Really just need a mod to lock it.

The necro DoT revamps were completed this year which is a massive change and took many man hours. Another month they went back and updated spawn timers to multiple epic 1.0 mobs (something that doesn't affect live in the slightest). For the anniversary they introduced a few new quests/missions with new augs, items, etc.

But don't let facts get in the way of your personal definitions of what updates, patches, expansions, etc are.

I have worked on MMOs before - an old one nearly as old as EQ even - adjusting respawn timers takes mere moments and is something pretty much anyone with eyes could do.

The Necro DoT revamp is maybe a day's work, a few days if it's not the only thing you're working on.

New quests and missions? OK, finally something that takes a little time. But the new augs and items you talk about? It depends on if anything actually new is being created, like art. Chances are they are using an already created icon and seemingly 99% of the time an already created asset.

I hope you weren't specifically meaning the 20th anniversary which was 2 years ago, but even if you meant a yearly anniversary... I mean do you hear what you're saying?

Several of the ones you listed get updates multiple times a year and more of them get updates at least once a year which most people would say gets updates and doesn't qualify as barely gets them. This is also not counting for the regular maintenance patches that they get.

You appear to be confusing "updates" with "more content" and what I mean by more content is additional zones, quests, itemisations.

TLP servers have all teh content they need, but I am also one of the players who advocates for a split between TLP & Live getting new content - at a 5/95 ratio is my guess of what would be adequate.

So here's an example of how I would see this working:

Live servers get 95% of all new "content" and TLP getting 5% ballpark figures.

Lets run with Live expansions in December & new TLP opening in May for the sake of these examples.

December 2021
Live expansion gets 12 new zones (I am being generous here) with the quests to fill them out


May 2022
New TLP which has 1 new dungeon added to classic with classic stat itemisation and quests tied into the new dungeon - no "out of era" stuff going on everything is kept "in line" with classic including zone graphics & npc models.

.................................

December 2022
And here let's hypothetically imagine that the dev team has grown yet again after an excellent year for EQ

Live expansion gets 15 new zones & quests
However at 6 months into the expansion Live gets one more dungeon & quests added as a 6 month update

May 2023
New TLP servers open and another new dungeon & quests is added to classic era

New TLP gets an additional set of quests tied into a revamp of an existing & under-used dungeon that will unlock for the latest TLP around the 6 month mark as their mid-year update. e.g. a revamped Velious or Luclin era Dungeon depending on unlock schedule.

Do that for a few years & see how it goes.

Again you are making the calls on what is an update and ignoring what the devs and other players think. Just because you don't consider it new content doesn't mean others don't.

Well that's a large part of the problem here, when I say update I do specifically mean content, but the fact is that there really isn't any separation between the two. If EQ has an update and all they did was change the mana cost of 1 spell, people still call that an update. But if EQ has an update that adds actual new stuff like a new zone or quests/missions etc., that's also called an update, even though they are obviously two completely different things. When really the first example is nothing more than maintenance.

Also I don't think TLP needs new zones or any new content at all. They should definitely keep the unique server ruleset thing going though.

I'm not seeing a problem with me saying it's not content and others saying it is.

That's why I outlined the distinction that I think needs to be made.

This is going to devolve into a circular argument unless you take some pains to outline what kind of updates you want to see on TLP.
If the updates that have been made don't fit your criteria for a worthy update, what does - apart from new TLP rulesets?

My assumption was new content would be considered worthy updates given this below comment but maybe I am wrong there?

I actually do think new content for TLP has merit, just not at the cost of a Live Expansion which you seem to agree with in principle.

But I think before your point can be clear it needs to not contradict itself.

I've never asked for new content for TLP.

That is what this entire thread is about. It was started because someone asked for them to put out an expansion that was targeted towards a new TLP server and not do a typical live server expansion.