An FV rule set discussion please

Why tho?

[quote="PVPme, post: 3871049, member: 446888"
4) Trak guts would be no-trade[/quote]


I don't know about track guts specifically but most epic "pieces" are tradeable on FV.

I think the worries about not getting camps are really exageratted. Sure some items that were permacamped before would still be hard to get (IE Efreeti Boots, Hierophant's Cloak) but now the best tradeable items would be Raid drops. Botters will need to focus on raid targets to turn a good profit, and they are not going to be warping in and getting open-world raid kills -- They would have to compete with the big zerg-guild du jour. They will lose DPS races, get reported like crazy, and likely banned.

The botters will be opening DZ's and farming the really good loot like a normal guild does. In fact I'd wager you will see LESS botters (in open world) than we did on Mangler, especially once Velious/Luclin unlock

Oh, please. We all know botters don't get banned. They fuel the Krono economy and are permitted to cheat because it means profit for DBG.

I would definitely resub if there is a FV tlp.

Even if you miss out an expansion for whatever reason, you can still come back get some old raid gear and make progress again. Seems like it would be good for guilds, being able to pass stuff on which is outdated but very useable.
The krono collectors would like it, DBG would make money (I suspect the highest $$$ so far on TLP)
Casuals with money to burn would like it, you can join a group and not feel like a spare fart in the wind.

Nothing stops you from raiding and the best raid gear will go to the guild...so it won't effect raiders.
You will always have the top of the line stuff.

Free trade makes sense for catching up to where the playerbase is. If there's a long curve ahead of you like Live, being able to buy a lot of upgrades cheaply makes that a lot easier.

So a kind of delayed free-trade would make sense for TLPs. Bring it in after a certain number of expansions. Since they often fade away after PoP, making it easier for people to catch up to the curve on TLPs might help convince new blood to join an older TLP.

As a hardcore raider, FV is not appealing. That cohort can only get their big upgrades from raids. But for everyone else it is a big plus.

And really, after milking eq players so long and so many phinny iterations, how many bleeding edge raiders care to race to find out what exploits are still in game so they can "win"?

So the casual raider is a big winner with FV, and that's mostly what tlp are today. Up until level 80 the group gear is trash, and I've seen it first hand now. Having been through the 70 to 80 slog, the game needs improvements. Fv feels like an easy win.

I get that. As a hardcore raider you want your gear that you earn to be better than those who don't earn it. I definitely agree with you that it seems FV loot is more geared towards casual/alt players. (see what I did there) I myself enjoy raiding but don't need to be in the guilds trying to be server first at anything. I also love playing alts and currently have 5 characters on one account above 55 on mangler, which is why less no trade items is more appealing to me. But I certainly do see the other side as well!

One more thought. What about making things that were once No Trade and making them Heirloom items? (Am I correct in thinking that heirloom is account bound?) Then you can still give them to alts as hand me downs? Kinda an in between route?

i'll play a bard but will roll need on monk pipes in chardok. because i can sell it for kronos. Also, there will be no more ooc like "shaman bp rotting at entrance" in PoH.

I guess you missed this part of my post: "Some items will be worse but a lot more will be better."

Great. I'll trade your bard camping and rolling need on 1 item vs bots camping dozens of drops in group camps and group drama on those drops being rolled on by people who dont need it.

Seems like a win.

I love how people's response to a ruleset which will alleviate the current drama on gear that is not as good as raid gear...is to provide 1 example of something that will be permacamped and rolled on...when there is currently a laundry list of stuff that is permacamped and has people in groups rolling on it when they cant use it and just want to sell it.

There are a lot more camps whose pressure will be released once raid gear is on the market than new camps that will end up having issues.

No more shaman bp rotting in PoH that someone has to pay for a port up to get and hope to get there before it rots or someone else yanks it? Which isn't a nonstop occurrence? Oh no! What to do?!

Oh wait...planar raid gear will readily be available in EC since it can be traded now. Open world picks, and instances from every guild and pickup group doing it every time their lockout timer is up. Since gear that used to rot no longer has to.

Shoot I couldn't make my guild's PoH raid. Ugh. I'm SOL. Oh wait...guildie picked it up for me and held it since now he can do that. Nice!

Ya...I'll take the latter.

There is/was a ~70 boxer on mangler (truebox lel) who killed open world targets and sold loot rights. I like free trade loot but don't kid yourself, it's way easier for 1 dude to mobilize his bot army than for an entire guild to batphone and get ported and set up

Edit: read post wrong sorry

I agree. I personally never pay for any gear because we have plenty of it, so if some whale wants to buy 20 kronos to get a weapon that gets replaced in 3 months, let him have his fun

Sorry I edited my post but not fast enough I guess. Had thought you meant something different.

Tradeable loot is generally a good idea.. at least to me because I really really hate to see items rot that could be useful for someone (clear a zone 5,10 or 20 times and this will happen..)
Also it is quite a hassle for raidleadership to also take the time to get alt xy to raid to loot some rot item because no main wants it (COH, raidinvite, later on the dzadding and maybe also making room for that alt)
Free tradeable loot makes it possible you can just pick it up and trade it later. from the point of view a pure win.

Will raidloot be sold in era ? Of course, some by guilds that had their fill on item xy, and of course there will be some ppl intendig to farm it and sell it for kronos or even RMing. But the later is already the case with current none-NoTrade items.. possibly the farming will more aim for raidzones (hi AoCs) and reduce the traffic on groupable items.

We'll only know for sure if Darkpaw games tries, but it is worth a shot in my opinion.

This can already be done now on any server. The pipe can be sold and MultiQuested. Try again.

Same with the shaman BP story. Since people farm Hate so much you'd be able to pick it up for dirt cheap a few weeks into the server. Lets not forget that on fresh servers people even sell that type of loot early on, selling the LR(loot rights) of items is very popular in the TLP scene. God forbid you pay a little platinum for an upgrade and not just get it for free...

okay, according to your story, ppl are already selling LR. then, why would we want FV rule set?

So I can pass my old loot to my alts/new guildies. So I can farm other camps at all times of the day and not just during prime time when I think I'll be able to sell the LR for the item. To make fun super overpowered twinks and level alts with pals. There are a lot of reasons but that's just some off the top of my head.

Is this a serious question?

People have laid out multiple reasons why FV rule set would be a good idea in their mind.

If you're talking specifically about people selling LR right now: FV rules alleviates the people selling LR from cornering the market on a lot of items and even if they wanted to keep doing that...the price would be driven way down.

Someone trying to sit in PoH and sell LR to a shammy bp is 1) not going to have much luck and 2) get a fraction of what they get now.

Shaman bp's will be in EC readily available: leftovers from open world farming, groups doing instances, every single guild on the server doing PoH raids whenever lockout is up, etc. Plus people selling their old gear once they get better stuff.

I think most people who oppose open trade loot feel as you do, except instead of openly admitting they feel it's against the spirit of the game, they just can't abide the idea that others who feel differently might get a server for them, so they focus on other arguments like krono sales, etc, in an attempt to make it seem like there are objective arguments against it rather than purely personal subjective ones.

Am I saying there are NO objective arguments against it? No, but Kronos, at least, are a pointless argument, for two reasons: One: kronos are an official feature of the game that brings revenue. If open trade loot is against the spirit of the game, then so are kronos...but that battle was lost long ago. Who thinks they are going to convince Daybreak to remove a revenue stream in the name of the spirit of the game? Two, kronos make more sense the more stuff there is to buy and sell, so kronos and open trade loot make perfect companions anyway.

There's more: Loot right sales. You can't stop loot right sales even on a no trade server, therefore the spirit of the game is still violated daily. And, FV and Brekt already exist; the precedent is set. The only difference is that FV and Brekt are both unlocked all the way to Live and do nothing to provide an open trade server for TLP players.

Perhaps most important of all: most TLPs start Classic, and Classic/Kunark have far more tradeable loot by default than later expansions do. Every time the pro-Classic crowd wants a new Classic start, they are effectively asking for a place that, at least for a while, is mostly tradeable. At least at the group level (i.e. planar loot is still no trade), and group level drama seems to be one of the other major arguments.

In short: some people like open trade loot and the precedent is set, a new one would only be one TLP out of many, there are and will be plenty of other TLPs with standard no trade.

Edit: and, if there's going to be a Selo 2.0 with similar unlock speed and fast XP, THAT is the server that most deserves open trade loot. Selo 1.0 should have had double raid loot drops and open trade loot. Selo 2.0 definitely needs it if it wants people to come back, getting gear on Selo is far far far slower than getting AA and levels.