Thinking about another 1 month to 6 month period of playing. I always want to do the same thing, and I get distracted for various reasons.Trying to be concise to get replies. I want to do my own personal "progression server" for as long as reasonable. Many years ago I was Quellious server, then made a bunch of players on FV, the last time I played (year ago) I copied them all over to test, which for the double experience and lower population is where I would go this time. My options are: 1) 2box or Molo, a Tank (SK right?) and healer (Shaman or Merc Cleric I guess) (with this setup, I would also run 4-5 level 85-95 buffbots, so always clarity, haste, and buffs) 2) Pick some perfect combination of 3 real characters and 3 mercs. (maybe 3 healer mercs instead of 3 dps mercs) 3) Try to box 6 toons. But it would need to be a low-maintenance group. I've been botting since 99/2000 but I've never tried the 3rd part software. I'm also not up to speed on things like GINA or sound triggers, and of course setting up those programs that are popular. -- Also, while I could pull a laptop over to assist, I would probably just run 6 windows on my main PC. I tell you all that to say that while 6-pc is probably the best option in power/what you can do, that I'm definitely not a well trained multi-boxer. Questions: 1. I can't go the pet route of Beast or Mage because I will miss assist or disc mercs or other things on raid bosses correct? I need a dedicated tank. While the Mage/Beast "main" would be best in groups or easiest anyway... I really need that SK for raid targets. 2. From what I recall the last time I did this seriously about 3-4 years ago. There becomes a point where I can't bring mercs anymore. I think it was Anguish or something. If this is true, I guess the 3 merc idea would not work for that. 3. When I think of the things from the past that people want in their "perfect group" I think of clarity and haste, others like rez, ports, slows... .. but I don't see Snare listed anymore. While the SK would cover the snare, it makes me wonder if the big box groups are just fighting outside mobs. 4. Anything I'm forgetting in my rust? I check on EQ once a year, and do know such wonder things like /melody exists now, but on a lot of things my eq brain is stuck in the past. I would probably just try to follow this chart: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:raid_progression_guide Thank you folks. Shout out to any old Quellious like Vis Maior/Wraith/Lotus Cult/Explicit...
A few points: . Expansions regularly add mechanics (easy gear, easy leveling paths) to help new players catch up. This means that if you're on a live server and take advantage of these mechanics, everything will be relatively easy and XP will go by fast. If you're looking for a self-imposed progression system, you'll have to be smart and disciplined about what you do and don't take advantage of. . Boxing raid mobs is more annoying than it is fun. There are often mechanics that are tuned for 40+ people that condense in troublesome ways. Ex: A raid mechanic that stuns three random people goes from interrupting <10% of the players on the raid to 50% of a six box crew. Or a mechanic that requires splitting of the raid forces and simultaneously execution of different tasks is a huge pain. And because most raids have linear progression, there might be almost an entire expansion locked behind some dumb raid you can't beat. A good example is a level 75 one that blocked me from continuing progression ( I think I wanted the Guardian Circle III drop): http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=3503 . I recently leveled up a six box team from 1 to 110, it was pretty tedious because I spent probably half of my time keepign their gear and spells up to date. By the time I hit max level I was so tired of leveling and getting new spells / abilities I never want to do it again. Then I did it again a month later when ToV came out and I leveled from 110 to 115. . I'd only recommend going higher than 3 characters if you use inner space boxer or macro quest 2. I use inner space boxer. . Once you've got a good team of max level chars, it's easy to level up new ones using heroic chars + vitality / fellowship xp. . If I were you, I'd start with three characters. A plate tank (SK is great, as are paladin and warriors), a bard and one more is a great group to start with. Ideal third characters would probably include sha, ber, mage and bst. If you wanted to keep a healer for raiding, you'd probably want the shaman. Otherwise the mage would round out your group a lot. You can always add more characters later if you really want to.
Tank/bard/shaman is probably the easiest 3 box that you can do without need 'additional help'. Bard and shaman require little extra work aside from one macro that does pet attack and auto attack and a spell or two on 99% of trash mobs. Switch to bard when you need pulling or CC. Switch to shaman when you need extra heals or dps. I 5 boxed for a while but was never able to get the extra dps to be worth the hassle, even with extra help. It requires A LOT of set up and A LOT of practice. To the point where I would find myself spending more time figuring out the boxing than I was enjoying the game.
3 pc + 3 merc is easier to set up for sure. I'm currently six boxing, considering dropping it to four, but I don't really want to backtrack later either if I decide I want to play all six. You have to enjoy the set up almost as much as you enjoy the game, because with six boxing, it's true that you'll need to spend a lot of time with set up as you do with actual playing. I definitely recommend the key broadcast sort of help if you decide to go with six which in itself has a very steep learning curve. For example - I just spent the last two gaming days purely with set up work, and I played 6-8 hours each day. It took me about an hour per character going through the bazaar looking for upgrades, plus another day going through the COTF HA vendor looking for augs / upgrades there (and I only did that for four of the six). Tucoh is very inspiring and very wise when it comes to six boxing. He's virtually mentored a lot of boxers through these forums! PS: Thank you Tucoh for the inspiration to start a spreadsheet outside of game to help me keep track of it all. I also spent time actually tracking it all on a spreadsheet yesterday. So much so that after an eight hour game session, I got nothing done other than looking at HA vendors + working on a tracking spreadsheet. However, if that sounds like fun to you, and you'd like to be able to accomplish more content than you could with three, then go with six. If it sounds like too much work, then go with three + three mercs (or four + two mercs).
Also - if you'd like to box four or six with a low maintenance group, I'd definitely recommend a caster focused group. One thing I've learned in all my research is that it's easier to set up a box group that is focused on either all melee or all casters. For example tank + healer (cleric/druid) + enchanter + wizard/mage. Example: paladin + druid + enchanter + mage could rock a lot of content and cover all your bases.
Here is my 2 cents from boxing over the years. Tank/Bard/Shaman/Mage works pretty well. COTH is pretty sweet to move your toons around. Tank/Bard/Zerker/Shaman works well also but you have worry about placement. Tank/Mage/Wizard/Enchanter am sure would rock too. Be easy to box. The only bad thing is with a tank class you must gear them out. (augs) Just like Tucoh said I would try 3 toons first and add one later. You really can"t go wrong with a bard or a shaman they make things so much easier
Mercs are not allowed for most raid instance zones. So, if you're trying to do old raid content, is almost a must have tank and healer... (sk + shm would be my recommendation for ease/power/dps) Add any other class, whatever you are most comfortable with, plus 3 mercs, and you should be able to do most group content. Personally I'd start with that, and if find want more power/dps, and willing to do the work an additional toon creates, it won't be hard to level another box up to speed.
Thank you very much for the replies all of you. I was reading all of the forums for everything in the past month over a few days, and i saw Tucoh, a name I remember from the past, but not sure why, with his thread about boxing, so I PM'ed him for help to make sure I didn't get ignored since so many people ask these same questions. Thank you very much Tucoh for taking the time! It sounds like... unless I want to be determined/stubborn, that I should just do 3 characters, 3 mercs, focus on group content, and just really explore what the game mechanics, and my setup will allow me to do with Mercs, and any special instances where mercs aren't allow, what I could do with SK/Bard/Shaman. Bonus Question: -How come nobody worries about having snare anymore? That's why I would go with the SK. -If I recall, Paladin would need to rely on Stun or Root. Also I thought Paladins still had terrible-terrible dps except versus undead? -Warrior I guess has gotten love, but seems like has the least utility (as always been designed). Are these beliefs still correct?
1.) Not much runs at low health any more in higher levels. For those that do, stun/root/finishing blow are sufficient usually (and many classes have an ability that has a chance to give them a boost upon getting a killing blow, so people tend to try to get the killshot ). 2.) As a 20+ year paladin, yes, stun/root are important when needed. In particular, as it relates to your first question: with the right aa line purchased, I can't even break my own root when I want to usually . . . I either have to dispel it or let it fade due to the timer. Nuking 50 times or proccing or whatever . . . just doesn't break it regularly. Edit: yes, our dps is lackluster, but with an all undead expansion barely a week old, I can't complain much (this year). 3.) No idea, never played a warrior.
Warriors get an AA (Call of Challenge) that snares and stops mobs from running Also, at higher levels, all 3 tank classes get weapon stance AAs: 2h stance greatly reduces defense but offers the highest DPS 1h+shield greatly reduces offense but offers the highest defense Dual wield (warrior only) is close to 2h in offense, and also not far off 1h+shield for defense. It's one of the best features of warrior tank IMO Warrior is aDPS reliant, but with a bard+shaman you'll be able to see DPS class numbers with dual wielding. It's pretty nuts when leveling as well, it kinda takes off in the 50-60 range (once you start getting the Innate Fellstrike AAs, which I think are auto-granted). That might make a sizable difference if you're going to try old raid content
I'll google it, after typing here, but sounds like with the autogrant and the aa's, that snare isn't a problem somewhere at 51,55, 59 or whatever. -- I haven't played a Warrior since AAs were introduced lol. Nor have I played with any/many Warrior friends. Always an SK or Ranger or Druid around.
I only skimmed over a lot of the posts, but I didn't see anyone mention this, but 6 players will get more XP than 3players/3mercs per kill. There is an XP bonus for real players. So a duo will get more xp than molo'ing, a foursome will get more xp than 2/2, and 6 will get more xp than 3/3 (this last setting set up results in 22% more xp per kill).
IMO that's a great plan. You can do quite well with a SK/Bard/Shaman trio and you may find someone you connect with that plays a DPS to join you from time to time.
I always wondered if the bonus was simply "full group" or if the system was smart enough to differentiate between mercs and real players since that 6 person bonus was coded before the mercs were.
Update. I finally got to it yesterday. Spent a good 4+ hours setting up the 3 accounts, getting spells, getting my windows right (man I hate setting up the windows in EQ, and I had no layouts to copy from the past).. and going through my in-game "Bank" character to equip them with Defiant and such. I went with Warrior/Sham/Bard. -- I only did this because I've not played a warrior since 1999 (my very first character) and I've played an SK 1-60 a few times.. also figured the Warrior would be less busy. Which brings us to why I'm bugging you. --- So everything went swimmingly yesterday. Fast levels, fast kills, no problems. Was having fun in Upper Guk. -- I also used 3 melee mercs as my help. The only problem was, is that now that I'm older, i'm a very lazy gamer. Having to spam heals on my warrior with my shaman was more work than I wanted. Grant it, it was Upper Guk, and you know 2-4 Yellows/Reds at a time, but I also can't be bothered to use the bard for single pulls. (It's ok to be lazy if i'm not in a group right? lol)) So! 1. Should I just go ahead and put in a Healing merc so my shaman can just buff and slow. 2. Should I just get over being lazy, and know that soon as this Shaman levels up, he'll get much better healing, especially those Shaman HoTs I remember. 3. or should I just change my group around because you didn't expect me to be so lazy? lol. Bonus point: I forgot how if the Bard is running Heal song or Heal+Mana song that all the mobs flock over to him. I could turn off song during pull, but then we get back to that lazy gamer stuff.In my defense, I never had a death which would have sucked since I had no cleric merc or rez of any kind lol, so I got all busy healing and cycling windows/players when needed. But ya. Thanks for any help/advice/opinions!
Can't edit on this message board, but nevermind Tucoh's. Went in the game, and my Bard attracted 3 of the 4 frogs from my pull and my shaman couldn't keep up the healing even though my Warrior and 3 rogue mercs were tearing down the mobs. Besides the obvious "i suck" I decided I'm going to make an enchanter instead of a Bard for low maintenance, and use a healer merc. I guess my dps is going to take a hit, but i'lll War/Enc/Sham-- Mercs: Clr/Rog/Rog.. or maybe Clr/Wiz/Wiz
war/enc/sham is OK, but there is overlap between the enc/sha, and the enc doesn't boost your warrior and shaman that much. You'll be happier if you stick with the bard. I'd recommend having melee, caster and healer mercs on your accounts and trying different options out. Generally real players out-DPS mercs so much that you might find yourself killing faster with a healer merc or two because you can pull faster and play more recklessly. It'll also be less effort when you don't need to constantly flip back to your shaman. If you haven't looked into it, look into inner space boxer. If you want a more relaxed boxing experience, spending the effort to set it up so you can just spam a few buttons that engage your boxes will make things easier and more fun.
Shaman are not great at healing single target tanks. They are much better utilized as debuffers, slowers, buffers, aDPS, DPS, and spot heals. They CAN be main healer for a group, but it is a lot more work than it's worth IMO. I am going to toss one more idea out there...box a cleric as a 4th toon. They are 300% better than a merc and only add 10% more work. You also gain the ability to quickly rez while in combat (mercs won't), short term tanking buffs, auras, dicho at later levels. As someone who started almost exactly on the path you are currently on, I WISH someone had told me real clerics are THIS much better than mercs.
