While I've been back playing for about 2.5 years, it's only been since Mangler that I've used AoCs for raiding... and I am just completely confused on how they work. If someone could please, definitively, answer these questions... I'd truly appreciate it. For the sake of argument, I will use the Nagafen's Lair AoC… Also, before anyone tells me to search... I did. I don't know if I'm using too broad of search arguments, or am doing it wrong - I truly cannot find a thread that answers these questions, and I appreciate anyone who can. 1) How many people are needed to open a raid instance? 1a) How long is the instance open/active? 1b) If we all camp for a couple hours and come back, can we still access the instance? 2) Does it need to be opened by a guild leader/officer? 2a) If not, if a non-officer opens a raid instance, does it blow the timers for the entire guild) 2b) If so, does it blow the timers for the entire guild? 3) How does a "Loot Lockout" work? 3a) If I join an instanced raid am I automatically on a loot lockout, or only if I get loot from that instance? 3b) Does coin count toward loot lockouts? 3c) If I don't receive any loot, can I join another AoC raid and obtain loot? 4) Does the entire zone spawn, or just the mobs in the immediate area of the "raid" target? 4a) For Nagafen's Lair… would the smaller names spawn? King, Priest, Tranyx, Named FGs, Efreeti? 4b) Is the respawn timer the same in an AoC instance as it would be otherwise? Or if we kill another named/PH, would it be a one-and-done for that spawn point? Thank you again!
1. 6 people in a group They don't have to be online. 1a 6 hours 1b Yes. 2. No 2a No 2b No 3 Not entirely sure. 3a pretty sure if you're there when a mob dies you're on a loot lockout 3c No. 4 The entire zone, usually sans non raid nameds. 5 I don't believe so. 4b no respawns in AoC instance last I checked.
1) 6 and I believe all 6 must meet the zone requirements, so for planes 46+ 1a) 6 hours 1b) Kind of. There is a 2.5 day replay timer (though I am not 100% sure how well it works, I know in Velious you could just reopen the instance when it ends) - That being said you will have a "Zone Wide" loot lockout so no loot will drop off trash for 6.5 days - you can only get loot from the names you did not kill that have separate loot lockouts. For instance, if you open a Hate DZ and kill a few Minis but leave up Innoruuk, you can return later but no trash will drop items but you can still kill Innoruuk and any Mini's you skipped. So while you can return later its usually best to complete a zone in the 6 hours if you can and if you want any sort of trash drops. 2) It can be opened by anyone, though doing so in a guild will probably make your raid leader angry . 2a) Yes, if someone opens an instance in a raid it hits everyone with the timer, this is why most guilds only allow officers/raid leader to open DZ's 2b) It only blows timers on the people within the raid - That being said, if someone opens a DZ that does NOT have a lockout timer then people with a lockout can join that raid AFTER its opened and loot will still drop (from Trash) - for instance, my Cleric had gone into Hate to loot an item I bought from a farmer giving him a loot lockout and 2.5 day lockout. 3 days later my guild did Hate and cleric loot was dropping. I was able to get my cleric into the raid and come up and loot the items still. 3) Already explained 3a)If you join the DZ you get the lockout as soon as you join 3c) If you have a lockout then no (This might be wrong, I know you can have a lockout and then join a raid after its created by someone without a lockout and sitll get trash loot, but I dont know about Boss loot) 4) The entire zone spawns - Some DZ's put you at the entrance to the zone, some put you in "natural" spots such as Phinigel/Kedge puts you in his room. Later expansions you are almost always dropped at the entrance of the zone 4a) This is a tough question. The answer for Nagafen specifically is no. The answer overall is that it depends on the zone. Some zones the names do spawn when the zone spawns. AoC's follow the exact same rules as Open World zones. So if a mob spawns immediately on Zone up then the mob will spawn immediately on DZ up. If the mob has a timer in normal zones then it will have a timer in Pick Zone. So for instance the Wrath of the Shissar and the Broken Golem both have long timers in Open World so when a DZ of Fear is opened neither spawn until their spawn timers allow them, but since the zone only stays open 6 hours it is impossible for these mobs to ever spawn in a DZ. 4b) Every mob is one and done in DZ's. Nothing respawns in DZ's except some trash in later expansions (Some zones you have to reclear ALL trash if you don't do it in 1 go and the trash drops nothing the second time - A good example of this is NTOV) Also killing just 1 mob gives you the loot lockout for all trash. So if you leave a zone and enter later even if you didn't kill a certain trash it still won't drop loot. For instance you cannot clear NTOV then go back a few days later and to ETOV as ETOV won't drop any loot other than Dozekar (Assuming you didn't kill him) I hope this info helps, If anything is incorrect please correct me as my memory is a little hazy on the rules of having a lockout but joining another already made raid and still getting loot.
- Loot lockout is not whether you personally get loot (I don't think); but rather did a named in the zone drop loot. I.E. if you're in DZ and Nagafen is killed, you will have a loot lockout for the zone, regardless of whether or not you personally got a piece of loot. This is relevant in some later expansions, like PoP. For example, in PoP, guilds might want to split raid Quarm. They'll have to open a new instance of potime and repeat phase 1, but all the phase 1 bosses will have a loot lockout, which means you still need to go through the event and kill the bosses, but they'll not drop any loot. - If you go into an instance, you may not be on a loot lockout, but you'll have a replay timer, which will prevent you from joining another instance. For example, if you join a pofire instance, but don't stay for any kills and don't get any loot... you still won't be able to join another pofire dz - In an instance, all the mobs spawn except for some quest mobs. For example, Broken Golem won't spawn in a pofear instance. I'm pretty sure it isn't EVERY quest mob, because I seem to remember Ragefire in Naggy's lair spawning in DZ, but don't quote me on that. Just assume no quest mobs spawn in an instance - For group-able named, its just a random chance for them to be up or not. Similarly to how every cycle of Efreeti will either spawn a PH or the named, it's the same in an instance. If you're lucky, you get him. If not, then oh well - With few exceptions, mobs do not respawn in instances. There are some ldon raids where mobs respawn, and some trigger mobs in VT respawn, but otherwise mobs don't respawn in instances
Thank you all for the replies. Mainly, we just want to make sure we aren't screwing up a dz possibility for the rest of our guild if we decide to open a dz with a small group or two. I'm pretty confident we could clear the trash/minis in PoH but, again, don't want to create any strife on our guild if they decide they want to do an unplanned PoH raid.
Actually they do not all need to meet the requirements to trigger the instance. They will of course need to meet the requirements to zone in and actually participate, but not to start the DZ. As a 4-boxer, I frequently spawn instances by logging on to 2 level 1 alts, invite them to the group, then log back on to the main character and trigger the instance. So I end up with 4 appropriate level, online characters in the group and 2 offline level 1s. Not sure if that is intended, but it has worked that way as long as AoCs have been around.
I think most AoC are account based lockouts also. So if you have a main and an alt on same account and you try and do an off night raid on alt it will flag your main on same account for the lockout as well.
I tried this last night - I spun up a PoH off AOC - made out of a raid of 8 people total - a lot of minis were up as opposed to OW POH I have been in. OW POH looks like respawns are every hour or so. No respawns on AOC instance - we basically took the day to clear everything and it finally kicked us at 2.5 hours and dropped the zone - so i am not sure about 6 hours that was mentioned above ? It did give us the locked out for 6 days - My question is would we be able to spin up another instance, but from I read about we would not be able to loot trash just the mini's we missed correct ? also would we be able to join an OW instance or would we still be loot locked ? Now if we did the same for a Dungeon - say Kedge - would we been locked out also for that time frame, but would it only be on the names that had spawned at the time - so if we spun up another for a chance at names that didnt spawn would we be able to loot ? sorry as the OP, still new to all this stuff oh ya one other thing had so many drops in POH how could i share this with other people I hated letting stuff ROT. I think we had like 2 or 3 of every chest drop so guess we were lucky by unlucky to share cause we were new at it..
For your Hate example - you would only be able to get loot from the named you hadn't killed IF they spawned again the second time and IF they have their own loot lockout timers. It doesn't work like that for Sebilis for example - all trash is one lockout and is randomly spawned when you fire up the DZ. For raid zones, the raid bosses sometimes have their own lockout timers so if you couldn't finish a zone you could go in when the reentry timer was up and do the rest of the bosses you weren't locked out on. Reentry timer is usually shorter than a loot lockout for a specific or all named.
They cover this in the Mangler FAQ, third question down. "When you request a raid instance, the player that requested it and their entire raid group will be given an account-wide request lockout for that specific raid for 2.5 days.
If something drops that noone present can use, you can bring more people in after the start. They will gain the lockouts for the zone as soon as they join/enter. You would have to do a /dzadd NAME for each person, and then add them to the raid if they are going to be part of it, etc... For Hate, they still have to be level 46 to zone in of course. There is a list of /dz commands you can explore to invite, remove, etc.... You can make someone else the leader of the AoC/DZ just like you do a raid as well.
