To me, a casual server would consist of slower game pace geared towards group content with incentive to complete mid level quests and gear up along the way instead of the head-down bullrush to level 50 that TLPs have become where players are arriving to their first raid wearing cloth, if that. That sounds like the concept of Manger to me, with my main concern being harsh death penalties in conjunction with death touches in raids, with players sometimes expected to take 0% rezzes in a pinch. That is seriously going to be a hindrance to Manger's success in Classic and Kunark, as if the slow xp rates aren't already going to turn away enough people. What do casuals want? Extremely fast experience rates where you breeze to level 60 without even bothering to buy half of your mid level spells, replace empty slots with VT gear, and raid 15 hours a week? Or do they want a leisurely pace and challenge where they can enjoy the gameplay along the way like Everquest was originally intended? So far it seems like casual players are complaining about both servers, but if you have a seriously limited playtime then why don't you simply embrace Selo? Hardcore players aren't going to be in your way. Are you seriously thinking that you're a casual player but you are going to be competing for Emp and VT keys at the same time as the hardcore players? Believe me, with 4 week unlocks the hardcore raiders will have too much to do to bother being in your way. If you want to enjoy the game every level of the way and aren't concerned about being max level and raiding in the first week, you know...play casually, embrace Manger. With some minor tweaks, Manger would make for a good stomping ground for casual players for some time.
If you want to complete tons of quests and accomplish lots of tasks, you are not casual. If you ARE casual please play on Selo which has announced the best TLP ruleset to date for either ultra casual (low ambition just want to enjoy the ride) or ultra hardcore (race race race win win win) gameplay. If you want to complete tons and tons of lofty goals, please recognize that you are hardcore (regardless of playtime) and start actively lobbying to change Mangler, the hardcore server, which has a rather awful implementation currently due to a high death penalty which hurts raiders facing deathtouch, and a lack of focus effects which removes a lot of thrill from collectors or completionists.
Here again we see the confusion of "casual" players. Maybe DBG should just create a casual server called InstantGratification where turning in your guild note bumps you to level 105 with BiS.
To me, casual means making playtime more efficient. Slow XP is the opposite. However, making the game a race is also not casual. It remains to be seen if Selo's 1 month unlock is going to be too short, but even then I'd rather be trying to catch up than be forced to do nothing waiting for long unlocks. I think the "double RF" xp will be enough to make it manageable for casuals. I think DBG mistook the 'hardcore' crowd with the 'purist' crowd. It seems that the hardcore crowd is more interested in competing against other guilds than with the game, so doing things like making XP slow as hell, having long unlocks, or increasing death penalties is no incentive for them, and I can't say I blame them.
Selos is what this casual needs, some fast exp, more rare spawns so in the short time I play I can get something I want/need instead of wasting days/weeks and still not get what I want. A server where it isn't going to take me forever to level up! And to top it all off it is starting in Luclin, so I can start as my favourite race, now I just need to talk friends into joining me so we can all be kitties. As for Mangler no thanks the hardcores can keep that, slow exp and death penalties etc will make it too hard for casuals and I really don't want to do classics yet again. So no to your Consensus, Casuals should not play in Mangler.
I've posted similar elsewhere, so I apologize for that. We, including Daybreak... have muddled ideas about what casual and hardcore mean. It's not worth sorting out those definitions. Selos is a fast progression server. It has people excited. It should not be changed. If fills a couple of niches very well (as LittleBrumski noted above). Mangler misses the mark. It should capture what current TLP and Selos aren't. There are a few options, but the ones that people are posting alot in the last few days sum up as: -no death penalty, normal if not better XP, longer if not really long unlocks, sure tune it harder by removing focus effects in the early out-of-era game (i.e., more pure gameplay), don't pile on freebies that trivialize the effort, truebox, AoC, picks... --this isn't a perfect cocktail if you are a purist lets say, but it is the best mix ever offered so the place you should play. Same for the limited playtime I like the old stuff player. Same for the I quit before PoP or whenever types.
It really depends on how much more experience it takes on Mangler to get to the next level. If it's close to Coirnav, then it will be better for people who want to invest less time per week into keeping current. If it's not, then there really isn't a "casual" server, as both servers will require more time investment than Coirnav.
For my casual sibling, Coirnav and Agnarr were too slow exp to keep up. I would like a classic server with major exp so that he can keep up with me.
Corinav is not a casual server. It is just a rehash of Phinni basically. So if mangler is corniav it isnt Ultra-Casual. It is not Casual. It is just Corniav again. Which is somehow an improvement as it stands, as you pointed out both servers are more time intensive than other TLPs. None of which are supposed to be casual or HC. Agnarr is longer xp than RF/LG. Corniav is longer xp than agnarr. mangler is longer xp than corniav. We are walking backwards.
I consider myself a casual player, I have a full time job, and with limited hours I can spend playing EQ, there is NO way I would play on a server with slow exp and a death penalty!! And I’m not looking forward to a server where everyone and their brother is going to be racing to end content. Mangler is DOA, slow exp, death penalty, no thanks. Selo is not casual, nothing about racing to the end, skipping quests, short unlocks appeals to me.
You have a point about them confusing hardcore with purist. My entire point is that for people that enjoy the game from level 1, doing quests, leveling in a multitude of places vs the obvious, bothering to obtain the low to mid level loot, Manger is probably going to be the better server but the raid scene is going to be non existent unless the server survives to Velious. So this brings me back to my main point, Manger is the casual server, there will be no "time investment" to "keep up", you can just play the game how you want, especially if there is no raid scene until SoV lol. And 3 month unlocks combined with slower experience rate sort of negates "be forced to do nothing waiting for long unlocks." doesn't it? If you are casual AND you don't want to or don't like level 1-60, play Selo because Helen Keller could reach level 60 in a weekend at those exp rates - just don't expect to keep up in raiding.
What if they removed the XP and death penalties on Mangler? Nobody tell Stagentti, but maybe what Mangler needs to survive is Agnarr XP rates and *Gasp* Free Trade.....? That would make it a unique TLP that would probably check off a lot of boxes for people.
I think a lot of people around here are actually hardcore, but don't have the time to play like it. Selos is a pretty good option for casual play. Nothing says you HAVE to have raided everything by the time the next expansion comes out. I remember I got my first level 50 toon after Velious had launched. Selos is going to be so easy to level, that if you take a day off, you can probably get max level with a couple exp potions and groups. Last month on FV, I started a druid/enc duo with a friend and we got to 32 in 7 hours via Tutorial, Paludal and Gunthak. Just 2 of us. No potions. Sure we had mercs, but I think groups could easily do that also... and more. If people want to raid, there should be plenty of high level folks to raid with. Unlocks could be a little longer though.
