Why isn’t Daybreak making Everquest more inclusive?

Anyone remember sleeper/combine?? Where exp was really fast and people complained because they got left in the dust by the hardcores?? No matter the exp rate people wont be happy woth it

Again we're talking personal experiences, you say people could play more, weren't married, had no kids. I am saying my experience was different and most people I know were married or had kids. You're trying to throw it under this blanket that 'oh things were so different' and it's not accurate. You're drawing on personal experience and assumption, not factual information.

I was 27 when EQ came, most of the people I knew were that age or older. A lot of them were in the gaming field or came from MUD's or and were those kids that grew up through the early days of video games, not kids themselves any longer. I KNow there were younger folks as well, and I also knew a few who were grand parents back then that played.

Hindsight is really convenient, but not as convenient as it would be with the advent of time travel. But I love my wife, despite her inability to grasp why things in "a game" can be anywhere near as important as things in real life. Given the opportunity, I wouldn't go back and make a different selection.

As much as your comparison to equestrian activities makes a point, it isn't relevant. DBG needs people to pay them money, and making decisions that push people from the game is against their best interest. There is a "thing" that this game is, and part of that "thing" is the difficult parts. Wherever they can maintain the "thing" without discouraging people from playing, that's good.

We are talking about EQ here, the number one marriage destroying game of it's time. When you make people choose between losing their corpse and losing their spouse... well it's just better if you don't put them in that position.

Fair enough, we had wildly different experiences. That doesn't change the fact that poopy diapers don't change themselves. Or that you might have to logoff in the middle of a raid if your spouse comes home distraught from some event that happened. Or that the school play falls on your regular game night.

So while you may have known plenty of married gamers, with or without kids, I can assure you most weren't playing like I was, or any other single person. Single people don't have to decide between leading their guild on an adventure through Siren's Grotto, or breaking up with their spouse. For the record I chose my spouse and quit EQ, but each time I come back I learn more about balancing them both.

IMO more people who play EQ fall into the married/kids category now than they did then. But we'll never have any way to know that for sure.

seems like no matter how they alter these servers people are unhappy.
Combine/sleeper were to fast and I got left in the dust. Ok we will slow down exp and put a timelock and voting to slow down progression so wveryone can see the content.
I never get to do the camps I want because they are always taken. Ok we will put pickzpnes in the game so more people can experience content in high level zones.
Only the most hardcore can get raid gear, I should be able to have access to raid gear as well. Ok we will put in npcs that allow you to spawn your very own very sion of the instance where you get raid mobs uncontested.

No matter what the do everyone just keeps wanting more. This game caters so hard to the casual crowd now, its a shadow of what it used to be

I think Coirnav will actually end up being at quite a sweet spot for exp.

Gear inflation, power inflation.....people leveling are already getting to be a lot stronger than the first wave of 50s, and it definitely shows on the exp bar.

It will definitely feel slow for heavy melee groups and groups without fast pulling. The past couple days, I've been doing a lot of pretty much all caster groups and pulling with my bard. The exp feels good with DPS this high and pulls this fast. I get the feeling that those really complaining about the exp likely have been dealing with sub-tier group comps.

If exp is sped up, that affects the entire chain of group comps that can be made and not too mention PL groups. It does suck as melee for now, but even with the opening of Kunark melee strength will jump a ton.

Back then it wasn't about how much time you had to play the game because there was a different expectation we had from the game. Back then, it was new, I didn't care how long it took to level back then because I had fun exploring new areas, meeting new people etc.

I have different expectation of the game now. Even if I had unlimited time to play, I don't want to do monotonous crap over and over like a robot. I want to raid a few times a week and do other things with my time.

If all things were equal then I would agree. But today, the player population is far more homogeneous. Most are achievers because the explorers and socializers have left leaving the min/maxer achievers to dominate. Think of the people that play iksar necros or monks only for the regen ability or ogres for the frontal stun. These people will play hideously ugly races -- not because they like them - but purefly for a tactical advantage in combat. Min/maxing is a way of life in MMOs and it's made them predictable and boring.

Today everyone in a MMO plays pretty much the same way. Most classes utilize the same tactics and strategy which is this: expend the least amount of effort for the most amount of reward. Everything has been reduced to a calculation and a transaction.

Also, since EQ is 18 years old, there is very little that is new on a TLP server that can be explored and every zone, bosses and named mobs have been deconstructed.

When EQ was released, there was more of a balance of player archetypes. Contrast that today where MMOs have been transformed into Skinner box reward mechanisms that cater mostly to achievers. Ergo, most MMO players have become achievers over the years because content for explores, socializers and yes role-players has been almost non-existent. Those player archetypes were starved out in because achievers (levels, gear, etc.) got all the attention. EQ went down the same trajectory by appealing to raiders.

My main point is that MMOs need to reward more then just achievers. Many MMO devs today are fixated on creating content for achievers and of course creating new monetization schemes. Increasing the exp rate on Coirnav would be one small step in the right direction to attract more diverse player archetypes and also more casuals. Obviously this is a far bigger problem than just addressing the exp rate. It's how MMO devs look at MMOs holistically.

I find a lot of people that don't have time for things just don't make the time.

On TLP the raids are short and if you have to log off then log off. If your guild has a problem with you logging off then its actually a problem with those people.

If you need to change a diaper tell group you need to change a diaper.

If you need to spend more time with the family don't login that day.

I disagree, watch general chat. Watch all these players that login and don't have a real goal with a real plan before they login. I would say most EQ players actually login for the social aspect of the game (on the live servers moreso) I often group with max level people on live who have no idea what they're doing (under perform to an extreme) but they're really chatty in their guilds and in groups.

Mostly agree, except I think there's also a large contingent of people who are achievement-focused but lazy, and more or less expect to be carried to max level or raid accomplishments by the other players around them.

The other thing is people who log in, and just sit lfg for hours. Make your own group!! Last noght i logged in, and within 20 minutes we had a full group going pulling king in lguk. There are loads of people lfg and if you arent super picky waiting for that supergroup you will get some exp. 2 hours in a sub optimal group is more exp then sitting lfg in general for 2 hours and logging.

I make lots of time for EQ, but at the cost of that time not being interruption free. I'm not going to get involved with raiding, long or short, if I know that during any given session I could be pulled away with no notice for an unknown length of time. That's how you turn into "that guy," and that's not the EQ experience I want. I like to be dependable, and able to meet the expectations of whatever activity I'm participating in. I have friends I group with on a Live server and they are fine with how I have to operate. During a TLP launch when you are meeting new people, it's much harder to operate this way and not cause friction.

Luckily I'm well past the kids in diapers stage, but the point is that you can't control the timing or the duration of the interruptions. I've accepted that and adjusted how I play so that I can still enjoy the game without causing friction at home. This isn't about spending time with the family, that is obviously done when not playing EQ. I've said it before, I don't want this game to go the route of WoW, stretching itself to appeal to any common denominator. But it can still be the plucky, punishing, quirky MMORPG it has always been, without striving to be some Pantheon-like "kick players in the nuts for even trying" MMO.

What you guys are describing isn't challenge, it's time consumption but not the fun kind.

Kill your first orc, you proved it is possible for you to kill an orc. May have been challenging if it was, say, a high red con, or something that beat you down before. Fun is had.
Kill your third orc, you proved it is possible to do so repeatedly. May have still been challenging. Fun is had.
Kill your 10th orc, you've got orc killing down. Time to move on to mind flayers, or something. Not very challenging. Fun is wearing thin.
Kill your 100th orc, your 1000th orc. You proved that you have a lot of time to waste. You probably were drinking or watching netflix or have worked out some form of illicit automation.

The XP on Coirnav is somewhere in the middle of that last line, taking into account that you may be stuck killing the same thing for 4-5 levels because there just is nothing else to do until you can level up enough.

Loads of not fun, enjoy your repetitive stress injuries.

I don't disagree. Unless they're making a truly classic server with corpse runs and no translocators, no soulbinders, no mob tethering, then I don't see any reason to have abysmal experience rates. Agnarr seems to be on the money, the sweet spot that everyone agrees on. (well most people)

The only thing that killed Coirnav for me was the xp rate. Been there done that. No feeling of need to do it again. To those comparing today to 1999 there is no comparison. Most of us played back then but it was a vastly different time for almost all of us. For me I had nothing better to do with my time than sit at the computer and grind out xp. Hell, I remember planning, yes actually planning with printed maps in a binder, a run from freeport to qeynos with my college roommate to get a friend of ours from qeynos to freeport at level 15.

I also remember that the expansions did NOT last 3 months. You had 8-12 months to level up and explore and socialize when it was all new and shiny. It's the same and dull now and you have less time.

If the xp rate was higher i'd still be playing on Coirnav. Instead DBG lost a customer and i've spent a good amount of money on previous TLPs with xp potions and bags and illusion type stuff. I have no issue spending money on my hobbies but i'm not going to spend money on a hobby I don't enjoy and I didn't enjoy Coirnav at all.

My day 1 of Coirnav
Log in on server up
Get in a group
Have to log when kids get home from school
Spend time with the family
Go to bed because I have to be up with the kids in the AM to get them to school
Log back on the next day and the only people left in the noobie zone are boxers.
Solo a bit and realize that it's not worth the time after a couple hours.

I haven't logged in since day 2 because of the xp rate being so slow. Based on the response on these forums and others i'm not the only one. DBG should get their heads out of their and realize that artificial blocking, like horrible xp rates, doesn't stop those that want to level fast. It's the same as their true box crap where they think they are stopping botters. The truth is they are making horrible decisions that will have a negative impact on their business. It's that simple. Blizzard is doing the same thing with WoW currently of which I spend less and less time on as well when I used to spend an exorbitant amount of time.

I've done the hardcore raiding and the casual raiding. I've done the open world and the instancing. I have boxed and played a solo character. That spans multiple TLPs recently as I quit playing Live waaay back in GoD when it was current content. I, personally, don't want to sit there for 10-12 getting to level 10. That isn't fun.

Maybe DBG will learn with their next iteration of the TLP server. Maybe not. Either way I have a load of krono sitting on an account that I got when I boxed on Lockjaw so trying out a new server isn't a big deal. I can tell how i'm going to like a server within a relatively short amount of time and Coirnav isn't it. Just my opinion on it all.

I started EQ at the launch of Kunark. Daybreak will never recapture that experience. The Exp was slow but there was a massive population and real money transactions were in the infancy with playerauctions. TLP servers today are dominated by players benefiting from RMT and Daybreak doesn't seem to mind as long as cash shop sales are good at release. In the original EQ boxing wasn't a thing, having real life friends playing with you was the biggest advantage.

If Daybreak won't crack down on RMT they should focus on bringing in casual players looking to relive Everquest. Slowing experience is a bad idea, grinding all day while boxers/RMT experts are setting the economy does not help recruit players.

Those are the krono buyers. Peole complain about sellers but there has to be buyers and there are lots of both.

My baby is in the diaper stage (2 months tomorrow), I actually expect to be able to play less as she gets older. Right now she just likes to be held so thats easy.

So that means that I will afk from a group and just type diaper change into chat, I actually don't raid because in EQ no one raids when I want to raid. I'd like to raid at 10pm my time so I can have a sit down dinner with the wife after work. I don't think raiding takes a lot of time and to me it doesnt matter if I max out fast in grouping it's going to get done.

There has to be stuff to do for players who play a lot at the same time.

I think you may be misunderstanding Bartle's definition of the term 'Explorer'. Mention of his book, Designing Virtual Worlds, is the only reason I'm wading into the muckfest that is the TLP forum section. (Good on you, Brontus.)

It's not simply about running around different zones. In EQ, "Explorers" are the people who do things such as:

- Discover undocumented tradeskill recipes and share them
- Parse log files to gain a better understanding of spell sets and optimal socials
- Lead suicidal raids in order to unlock their mechanics
- Hunt for and reporting possible bugs and other anomalies in the issue tracker
- Run the item collector tool to contribute to the online database
- Develop 3rd party websites and tools
- Update quests with more accurate information
- And yes, mark and share maps

All of the Achievers merely stand on the shoulders of the Explorers.



http://www.politicalavenue.com/1086...ION/New Riders - Designing Virtual Worlds.pdf

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0131018167/