Agnarr, fresh server, new fun, new grief guild too unfortunately.

Ok angry, confused guy.

Anyway, OP: An EQ server is like any other slice of humanity. Some very cool people, some total d bags and a lot of average people. You're running into the d bags at the moment. The people on this thread telling you to shut up or calling you names are sad and angry in real life and they should probably be pitied rather than engaged. You did the right thing, took all the steps that DBG would ask you to and you have to make a report and leave it at that. Good luck.

Game. Set. Match. /thread

Sad to see things still haven't changed. This is why I left this game behind, poor moron controls.

Now I enjoying playing idiots in OverWatch. There you can take matters into your own hands. Not just be over run by adults / teens with way too much time on their hands and can get every loot / aa available.

EQ isn't a game of skill anymore. Everything is documented to a T and most people have done everything 100 plus times. EQ is just who can put the most hours in.

Naww he did not provide any evidence to support his arguments. Just his opinions.

I know right? And his defensive rebuttal was a high school history lesson... Verbal diarrhea that is irrelevant to the thread..

I'm not the one making the claim that fairness "should" exist. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming throughout nature. Is it fair to the gazelle that he's being eaten by a lion?

Furthermore, its important to draw a distinction on the subjectivity on "your version of fairness" under the OPs example. From the aspect of the guy that's soloing he touches mob first, its "fair" that it's his. From the aspect of the 12+ people in the camp, it's not "fair" that one guys wants/desires should trump that of the 12+. After all, he is one guy in need, and they are 12 guys in need.

LOL! So, if your home was broken into and valuables stolen, would your response be "well, that's nature for you, harhar"? By your logic, it's totally fair..

Good afternoon guys! So, now to throw in some facts that were not discussed by the disgruntled OP.. <Although some of the responses were fun to read... unfortunately we don't qualify as "d bags" -

Legacy Inc didn't just come and go dispel your mob(s). We didn't touch a single mob that had been engaged, hence why one other grp stayed in their area for a period of time before heading out for the evening. You choose to come down and setup shop next to us, which we admired, until you decided to change your style. You saw that we had multiple pullers, yes (this irritates some as everyone knows, but we made it known what our intentions were) and decided to engage mobs on incoming multiple times, and that's when you received the initial tell from me personally....I explained to you that we aren't here to cause problems, but I requested that you not touch mobs that have already been engaged... You went on a little shpeal about giving Robe(s) of the Ishva to 10 people and personally funding your friends with krono from this island, so leading this post with jboots from your friend was touching, but inaccurate. This s*** talking you referenced simply didn't happen. You were upset, yes. We had ONE guildie respond with a snarky comment, but not s*** talking. We appreciate the attempt though of the vague insult.

(Those logs can be requested at ANY time, because I am one of those nerds who has them)

Back to the fun stuff.. you chose to continue down that path, and charmed multiple, yes multiple, that had already been engaged/pulled by our guild, so the next time you charmed a mob that was engaged, we dispelled it. So yes, that part is absolutely true, but please let folks know that this was not the first one you did it to. You suffered one death, due to your stubbornness, but.. because I am such a sweet soul, i decided to offer you a rez, but you failed to accept it.

Now, normally there is no need to 'defend' actions in a 20 year old MMO, but since the boards have been so slow as of late, due to people actually playing again, I figured I would set the record straight that Legacy Inc isn't a problematic guild.

@Kadabara / OP, I will go ahead and send you the logs via PM here, so you can familiarize yourself on the facts before responding. I don't want you to answer anything with emotion this time around, I prefer a good discussion with someone who is thinking clearly and has all of the facts in front of them.

See what I have to do when we temporarily close Recruitment? Sheesh!

And the subjectiveness of OPs "version of fairness" fleshes itself out. Thanks for the post Barlow.

Is whining about it going to get my "unstolen"? That's why we put locks on our doors. Try stealing it while i'm inside and you'll get a taste of my version of fairness.

"Now, normally there is no need to 'defend' actions in a 20 year old MMO, but since the boards have been so slow as of late, due to people actually playing again, I figured I would set the record straight that Legacy Inc isn't a problematic guild."

I hate to be this guy, but this isn't this first time I've heard multiple people complain about Legacy Inc.

I encountered the other day while at Frenzied camp in Lguk an Enchanter in your guild.
Pickhoping to kill Frenzied camp. would not engage the camp unless a named was spawned. ( saw him do this is 4 instances ( Had fraps running on all 4 separate occasions from cleric box outside of group )

( Colors ) who is now been guild removed after talking to the correct guild management.
I feel as though the guild officer/leader who removed him did the correct thing and that made it a little better in my book. ( keep up with this disciplinary action and I don't have a problem )

But it doesn't excuse the fact that he has your guild tag along with so many others.
( Your guild has a great number of respectful players but also a good number of disrespectful @sshats )

Heh, so you Would be upset with mother nature...

Of course whining won't return your goods; but neither will ignoring it. The only plausible action is to call attention, and report to the authorities... Which it seems the respective parties have done in this case...

It's all water under the bride, to me... I just found it odd that you went all 'high school history teacher' on the OP, making historical/cultural references to the problems in our elf simulator...

Playing this game is a hobby. I think we all expect our hobbies to be 'fair', much like the locks on our doors...

Sounds like the OP is using tactics straight out of the CNN fake news handbook. Selective editing, ommiting information that doesn't fit the narrative etc.

Thanks Johnwick! You bring up a lovely necessary evil of "Open Recruitment" at launches of games. We made this known to everybody in our initial post(s) -- that it is a necessary evil, but we are giving folks a shot.

I appreciate the backhanded compliment of our Leadership team removing the problem so quickly. We knew, and everyone should know, that these problems will occur for a lot of guilds on new servers/games, that take the risk(s) with an aggressive recruitment strategy pre-launch. Anyone can 'hoodwink' for a short period of time, but their true colors (no pun intended) come out sooner rather than later.

Also, as you said, does it excuse the fact that he had our guild tag, nope. But I have hundreds of employees, and I expect that a few of them will not make the best decisions, and when they fail to meet my expectation(s), I remove them from the team.

If someone wants to throw shade at an entire entity/guild over a few @sshats in the opening days of something new, I have to wonder how they got through certain situations while lacking critical thinking skills. The sky isn't always falling when something so minor happens.

Lastly, you said we have a good number of disrespectful @sshats -- And we are always listening to folks and addressing issues as they arise, so please PM me with some details about the 'good number of @sshats' -- Thanks!

I should also mention that this example actually reinforces my point. Do banks leave their money sitting out in the lobby under the expectation that in a fair world no one would take it? No! They expect "unfairness". We have laws in place to reinforce what society has decided to make "fair" and they are enforced with the threat of imprisonment or death in some cases if they are not adhered to. "Fairness" is not some trancendent virtue that just exists in the natural world.

I agree. But, this isn't the natural world. Its Norrath.

I actually recently left this guild but felt i needed to say that these guys are a great guild and the VAST majority of them are all good people and care ALOT about respecting everyone in game, this guild is definately not a griefing guild. Make sure you get all the facts before judging someone.

I'm really confused about something in your posts. No one is out there saying "Life is intrinsically fair". I have never seen this in my life, I don't think you have either, yet you keep bringing it up.

Us "Liberals, millennials, thoughtful human beings" w/e you want to call us, simply state that life SHOULD largely be fair, and we take steps to make it so. We know its naturally not fair.

What is your point bringing this up over and over? It feels like you are trying to be argumentative, then just end up reinforcing the viewpoint of what you are trying to counter.

Except that your version of "fair" often infringes upon other's freedoms and attempts to dismiss this reality under the guise of moral superiority. Its an attempt to hijack the narrative and exclaim it to be the end all, be all viewpoint, where other's opinions are shamed and berated into silence.

Take this anecdote, as an example:

Is it fair that some children are born into great wealth, while others are born into great poverty? Take little Timmy for example. Little Timmy has to walk to school barefoot each day because his mother cannot afford to buy him shoes. In the meanwhile other children aren't so unfortunate, and are chauffered to school with all the amenities a wealthy family can afford? Should this disparity in experience be allowed?

The feel good response would be a resounding "no" that's not "fair". However, this view also fails to take into account the series of poor decisions Timmy's mother made leading him to this life, or the fact that Timmy can grow to earn his own, and ensure his children are not inheriting his experience. It sum, it paints Timmy's experience as insurmountable and an endpoint to the story.

This would be an ideal situation in which one would say children should have equal experience/opportunity. However, the way law would enact such equality, would be to "tax" those in the advantaged position (see recent estate tax laws) and provide these same luxuries to Timmy, however this would not come at no cost, and it assumes the government is a benevolent force in righting all injustices (which it is not, the poor still get the bare minimum from the government but the government increases it's "take" from the "unpoor".)

Now, from the other side of the narrative, is it fair that the things you work to earn in this life are taken from you and given to those that did not earn them? When you die, should the government appropriate your life's work to give to a teeming faceless mass of have-nots? Or do you feel that you should be able to leave your earnings to your children upon your death?

Fair is entirely relevant. The millennial crowd, on the other hand, bites hook line and sinker on the hijacking of the narrative because the narrative feels good to the disadvantaged, as this is the state in which most of us start out, so its more univerally relatable, but it fails to take into account that this is only the starting point that most start from, and is rarely the endpoint where one's life's work is manifest. It's a narrative they've been trained to accept as immutable. However, the reality is, being disadvantaged is largely a temporary state. Whereas imposing laws that eliminate the possibility of transcending this temporary state of disadvantaged-ness are permanent hurdles that make it more difficult to pull yourself out of the disadvantaged state in the future.