1-65 Classes what would you change?

Hello, all. I know TLP isn't classic and never will be but i can't help thinking there are a few things that could be altered that would help out a few classes. Most agree that at 65 classes are pretty even for there respective jobs.

Most classes are fine. Enchanter Monk SK Necro Mage Shaman Druid Ranger. Here are a few thoughts on the others. These suggestions are aimed at helping these targeted levels without messing with the higher end game.

Warrior. There fine with one exception. Lowbie aggro. Once they get there aggro disc there better but knights still out class there aggro. Its out of era but i like that they have it. Sorta a well there are holes in classic and we are going to leave this in so there is one less hole... Maybe if they added a Hate mod to Elbow smash for warriors only? Something close to a Yak proc. Gives them a little more control but shouldn't mess with anything past lvl 65. Knights would still have better and more control on aggro but Warriors would have an easier time. And dare i say more fun.


Rogue. Poor Rogues. TLP rogues need a hand. Once the king of sustained damage in classic can't compete with all the things that have slipped thru the cracks from live. Now i don't want to see a single nerf to anyone. That's all been done. What we need for these guys is a boost to make them shine or maybe compete? With out messing with live or past 60-65 where they start to carry there weight due to gear and better poisons. My suggestion would be increase the cap for the back stab skill to level +10 tapering off till you hit 60-65. Subject to tuning of course. Then lower double back stab from 55 to 35. Without live poisons (which there tuned around) this would give them a solid boost in the 1-65 range with out messing with live.

Paladin. I have never understood what they did to Paladins. Enter 1999. Paladins were the only tank able to self heal. This haunts them to this day. In this range everything they could do a cleric could better so whats the point? They fundamentally messed up on Paladins. Class design compares best to SK and Ranger. SK tank dps able to lull undead. Ranger DPS light tank minor healing able to lull out doors. (thinking classic here). Paladin was a Tank with moderate healing and able to lull. Absolutely no DPS. The other two had choices, especially after SK's got drains (no they didn't have drains from the start. Best they had was the proc that was coded to be 1/2 the necros proc.) They could DPS or self sustain by healing/taping. If you look at the spell spread for these 3 Paladin spells tend to come much later ( the ones they actually use) than Rangers and SK. Luclin gave them much needed low level stuns that they should have already had. I Still can't think of a way to help these guys without messing with post 65. I really think they should have had access to the smite line from clerics but that is never going to happen. One thing i would love is if they had there pacify beefed up. They even gave it back to them post 85 i think. Never understood why they killed it.

Bard. No class has ever been subject to so much nerfage... Its a tragedy fit for a Poet. I could go on for days about Bards. But simply put they don't need a buff to make them competitive. They need a few nerfs put right. Ok seriously Enchanters don't care anymore... let bards Mez and charm to a equal level to Enchanters. Duration is the limiting factor. Thats all thats needed. They were given songs in Lucin that filled a few gaping holes but they should have already had them... Sinoches Dreams should be classic. All charms and Mezzes should be within 1-2 levels of a enchanter. LVL 64 chanter can charm up to a lvl 64. No reason a bard shouldn't charm up to 62... really max 57? I understand the nerf to AOE kiting. But really did you give them a choice when they tried to group and there songs wouldn't work because of level caps? This is turning into a rant so i'll close.


I love EQ. Well old EQ. TLP's are a great thing and I want them to grow. Please feel free to express your own ideas. I know some may not agree and that is great. Change my mind... educate me. Thanks for braving the great wall of text.

I agree with you about Paladins.

What defines the Paladin class to me is:
Fast casting roots, Quick heal spells, Heal over Time spells, Lulls, Stuns, Slay Undead, LoH, Undead Nukes.

From classic they only get Lulls and Lay on Hands. They miss 70% of the class defining abilities until level 65. The undead nukes and heals they get are for casters, not melee tanks, their casting time is far too slow.

• Slay Undead ability from level 1, 1% proc rate. Then you increase it with AA's later on.
• Undead self proc buff, 200% proc rate (4 PPM instead of 2 PPM).
• Fast Casting heal starting at level 1
• Heal Over Time spells from level 10
• Higher level Lull line of spells
• Low level stuns in Classic
• Fast Casting Root spells from level 10
• Faster casting Cure all, Crusader's Touch at 6 seconds is way too slow. 3 seconds would be better
• Their own line of faster Undead Nukes from level 1.

You know what would also be great? An Undead DoT spell. Maybe an Instant cast undead DoT AA. Root Rotting undead? lol win.

Absolutely Correct!

Maybe the next TLP can be an "Advanced Classic TLP", starting with needed changes from day 1, instead of unlocking them too late.

I would give druids and shamans a rez line and clerics their spam hammer and standing mana regen.

I was maining a cleric when they first introduced the spam hammer and it was a crazy change to a class that had long accepted that it's job was to sit and heal 90% of the time - but it did give you something to do in those common groups where healing was barely needed (I was in a top tier raiding guild).

I would also give druids a way to switch between their healer and their dps role (kind of reflected in later AAs, and also common in other games) - this would make them more welcome in groups, and probably also on raids. Naturally, there should be some kind of time lock on the switch and if they opt to go damage, their heals will be very significantly reduced (and vice versa).

I would give rogues a TLP-friendly poison line to compensate for their poor weapon choice.

I would give necromancers a DoT line that runs indefinitely and costs the necromancer X mana per tick. It wouldn't be as mana efficient as regular, standard resist, pure damage DoTs but would be more mana efficient than their nukes. Necromancers like to DoT. It's a pity they can't with wasting their mana.

I also like many of the other suggestions above, such as giving Paladins their unique CC & undead spells sooner. I always felt the biggest problem for Paladins was that there is almost always a cleric in the group, so the more Paladin-only spells they have the better.

I would also give charm casters a Dire Charm line much earlier than exists now. It would be limited to lower level pets than the main charm line, but without the tedium of early breaks. I'm personally a bit bored of charm pet breaks and the messing around in xp groups it entails (for all classes and roles).

I'd add the (Luclin) General AA's with Kunark and the Archetype AA's with Velious. Not so much for balance reasons but so that you actually have some reason to log in after XP capping.

This thread has turned into how can we make original eq as unrecognizable from the original as possible.

Thats what new games are for.

Paladins had the idea that an ultimate weapon (Epic) was on their horizon at level 50. Some of us paladins were willing to sacrifice abilities in order for this carrot on a stick. Then all of a sudden every single class got epics.

While i agreed with you fist post , I am not on board with your edited post. We know they will not make aggressive changes. Especially if it messes with live.

i dont know what you are judging necros at being good at for the current level 65 area. But they certaintly not where they should be, imo, DoT crits should have been put into the game when Nuke crits were. Only fair, specially considering how they have buffed melee, so raid mobs die that much quicker further decreasing the raid mobs likelyhood of living very long, hurting yet another of the necros only contributions to the game. Necromancers are suppose to be the king of sustained raid damage, and maybe its just PoP, but thats just not the case currently.

Within the bounds of subjectivity I agree with the OP.
While other classes may have an issue or two, those three are hurting and rogues badly.
There were a lot of bad decisions made many years ago using metrics that no longer exist.

In line with making the best game possible they should be fixed, nostalgia only goes so far.

While these are great ideas we know they will not make aggressive changes to TLP's. I am thinking smaller less impact full things in the broad range of EQ. More to bring it back to classic such as putting Harmony of nature back in during classic. It was introduced in Luclin i believe only because they nerfed Harmony.

I wish. Or for Agnarr cherry picking a few GOD AA's.. Looking at you dot crits..."too hard to code" Pfft.

People on TLPs don't like Pallies bc everyone wants to dps, race, & farm. As a class, they are extremely powerful for their era; they just don't fit the farmer mold. The 'point' of their healing is tanking & healing (and curing, buffing, ressing). You have the single most powerful damage mitigating effect of any of the tanks in stun, albeit when allowed to land. Paladins get their heals much earlier than Rangers and before SKs get their taps.

No on charm. What they could use is better haste at earlier levels. A bard can do some of just about everything but not near the level of the specialist; that is by design.

I don't think you will ever fix the issue of Paladins / Rogues (And even Rangers), until you address the elephant in the room.

Monk fist damage.

Until it's corrected to be more like classic, there simply is no reason to play Paladin/Rogue/Ranger, from a min/max perspective.

The problem with min/maxers is as soon as one elephant in the room is addressed they always replace it with another and then complain about it. Think we all have had enough of that crap.
Monks are not OP the class gives up a lot for that damage just like Pallys give up a lot for those heals as does every class for what it can do. Zeroing in on one feature of a class without respect for what they give up for it is either dishonesty or ... well leave that to the imagination.

Monks were very strong, and over-represented BEFORE the imbalance in their fist damage was added to the game. And then we trivialized their "Weight" penalty, with the 40-slot 100% weight reduction bags, and coins weighing nothing.

Buffing a class that was already one of the best, and most popular results in what you see now:

Paladins and Rogues being completely pushed out.

Rogues problem revolves around weapons, gear drops NOT base class attributes.
Pally's have a reputation for being boring from the beginning, it has always been this way but some see through the hype and play them anyway. I wont but some do.

Monks fist damage added to game when?
Every class had their damage raised in various ways.
The weight penalty is still around and will matter, less so than it once did but a LOT of things have been changed and benefited all classes. AC is king for the first months of this server and anything that drops it is worrisome to a Monk.
If it that danged good go play a Monk and enjoy it, I am betting not.

There is an expression in MOBA's called "Power Creep".

This is when developers change something seemingly unrelated to a character/class, and it has an impact outside of the foreseen intent. Typically this results in all classes creeping upwards in power.

For example, giving everyone a 100% Weight reduction bag: At first glance, this seems like an equal buff to everyone right? Everyone should be happy. When in reality, what you've done is removed one of the few "Downsides" to playing Monk, in essence you have buffed monk. The same is true by removing coin weight.

If you buff Paladins and Rogues to compensate for this power-creep effect on monks, you're going to trivialize a lot of content which is already much easier than the classic incarnation.

I'm rarely in favor of direct nerfs, but I think the monk is in an unhealthy state for this game.

Neither has to be "buffed" Pallys are just the way they are some like it most do not.
Good to have one around in a raid though.
Rogues just need a weapon, no need to touch anything else and their problems are over.
P99 is still around so go back to it if that is what has your panties in a bind.