Beastlord Hate decrease ability needed for competitive play

I still pull hard with spirit of fire especially towards the end of the fight. We need a -hate skill.

Sounds like your tanks need more hate building than anything. I have yet to see our BST taking aggro if you don't count a dead tank where previous hate wasn't transferred to the new.

We have 4 beastlord and we all have this problem. Sounds like your beastlord afk's after autoattacking.

"Evade" (hitting hide while you have hate on your current target) is always available to rogues. It was originally added during classic. (As in before kunark)

Betting a good shaman would crush beastlords on DPS burns. Their 61 pet is also 58, they do have melee DPS aa as well, and better nukes. Unlike beastlords they can even double attack 100% of the time on a burn. I'm guessing most of them don't feel the need make the beastlords feel bad?

People going AFK become more noticeable when you're triple splitting Time. Seems our tanks might just be better geared. I don't see why you're trying to argue the point I made.

What's your point? Just because Beastlords get the shaft on the numbers game doesn't make their role in raids any different. They're offensive hybrids and they spend most of their time hitting the mob. Shaman and Druids both would be considered support classes but could easily outdps a beastlord in POP. SK's with HT are going to beat us out, as well. That doesn't mean that druids and shamans start neglecting heals and buffs during a boss fight so that they can DPS. And that's not going to keep an SK from switching off to off-tank an add and ruining their parse. Their primary roles are more important.

If you thought I was bragging about 400 DPS, I wasn't. That's not good. It's sad that I put out threat of 800 DPS when I do half that. Next raid, ask your beastlord to cast scorpion venom, venom of the snake, and an ice nuke before the mob hits 80% and spam some kicks and AA's. You will likely watch him die unless your tank has DBoW and survives.

All we're asking for is MARK and these DOT changes to be considered next time patchwork is done. A quick review will show it's broken.

Warrior tank shouldn't need DBoW to keep aggro from a beastlord (that doesn't have Time Weapons)

Lol if they want something like a ranger jolt line give it to em. If you're raiding i can gaurantee it's going to get resisted almost 100% of the time anyway. Its good for group play, useless for raiding.

Adjust the way you play your class. This isn't a classic server so don't go on about how things were in era.

As the top beast on Ragefire, I consistently parse top 10-12. AoW I parse top 3. A hate decreaser would be nice, but agro isn't a huge huge problem unless I'm debuffing or for whatever reason the tank may be struggling. If I'm going full DPS, I will admit that incapacitate might was well be taunt.

Sooo don't use my spells and just spam kick.

"My arm's broken! I should ask a doctor to take a look."

"Nah, just use your other arm."

I HAVE adjusted. I have to compensate for this mechanic or else I die every encounter. Thanks for the helpful response.

We don't play much at all the way we did in era originally. We do much more DPS with the innate AA's, DoT changes, Melee augs and general melee changes over the years. Add the pet agro transfer and yeah it's a problem. Im not one that's trying to beat monks to the top of the DPS charts, I still do my patch heals etc, but agro will still find it's way to me.

100% in support of moving one of our de-agro AA's up or adding a line of pets that instead of a +hate proc and stun, do a -hate proc with no stun.

I really dislike out-of-era changed but I have to agree with this one. (and add that mages REALLY need the same love) The changes to our dot line, and the passive Melee dmg AA, combined with the MOTM changes are requiring us to really hold back on raids or be tanking the mob. Generally even holding back (for example not using my DD's or dot) I will still end up tanking the boss by the end... if a tank dies and we don't have a clean aggro swap? I will be tanking for sure. Well me, or Skarld, or one of our other BSTs...

I know mages have this same issue, we'd have mages over 50% mana at the end of fights because if they nuked any harder they'd be dead. I'm all for threat management being part of the game, it was just never this big an issue back in the day. Right now if I want to be sure not to get aggro off the tanks either I have to not use my pet, or JUST use my pet.

Why don't we fix rangers so their archery builds appropriate threat, and then tell them not to use their bows on raids. Its the same as asking us not to use our pets. I hope they at least consider allowing one of those AA threat reducing lines in earlier... or fixing the pet procs. (SNOW, for example, needs to be a threat OVERRIDE not modifier! as its stands -50 hate doesn't even out do the hate from its built in stun.)

I haven't played a Beastlord on live, but I'm doing now. What I really dislike about Beastlord aggro management is that our pet will outaggro us if we only dps. Since our pet has weaker defense than we do, this is not a good situation, so I have to re-cast Incapacitate once in a while to hold aggro against my pet. I'd really love to be higher aggro than my pet if it isn't set to taunt.

In a raid situation, this is of course completely different due to MOTM. But the proposed solution of the original poster to give us deaggro skill is tackling the problem at the wrong point. What we need is a pet proc buff with -hate.

Though I haven't really had trouble with getting aggro on raid bosses unless I cast slow + incapacitate from melee range. But maybe that's because our tanks usually don't just suddenly die.

oh and btw: To those starting a discussion wether Beastlord is a dps class or not: Make your own thread please.

An aggro reduction mod on the pet proc is not going to fix the issue since it could easily be resisted by a raid target.

While both would be ideal, either MoTM mark needs to be fixed or disabled since its intended effect is seemingly no longer needed (Mage Pet zerg isn't a thing in Time) or the hate mods on reworked DoT lines (which admittedly have been pretty awesome DPS wise) need to be re-tuned to account for the changes.

I don't complain when monks get weapons over us because they're pure melee and put them to much better use. I'm not asking to be on par with the other ranger hybrid dps classes or even get a DPS boost at all. It'd just be cool to not risk wiping the raid on a mob that frontal AOE's because i casted 2-3 dots at 85%.

If casting you're highest level dots is causing too much damage and pulling aggro, cast lower level dots. Managing your generated aggro around your tanks gear/ability has always been part of the game. Personally I would drop your pet proc entirely on raids, it adds a negligible amount of DPS for a constant low dmg stun proc that adds hate to you. That one seems like a no brainer. The mechanics aren't perfect for the pet aggro transfer, I get it I raid on a mage, but it's 100% manageable

have you tried just not putting the pet proc buffs on your pets?

even the negative hate ones dont come close to negating the amount of agro the stun component gives.

Beastlords are definitely a hybrid support class.

You have slows and cripples to main or backup debuff on raids and groups. With a healing focus and aa's your fast heal is a pretty decent patch, and you have a high level disease cure. You have an amazing long duration mana regen buff that rivals and stacks with the enchanter line, a short duration group extreme mana regen/heal over time ability that can save a raid or group when cast wisely, and a great set of hp/stat buffs that can be used in lieu of a shaman's when the need arises. You also can help kite and offtank, there are plenty of agro spells to assist with this (Slows and Flash of light omg) and a pet with taunt to peel off of casters and tank when needed. On top of this, at 65 you have two instant cast DoTs, two extremely fast casting DD spells and a pet that allow you to be pretty fair dps. However, the DPS role should be secondary to debuffs, buffs, heals, cures, and aiding in crowd control.

PS - If you're having pet agro issues, cast Spirit of Vermin rather than any of the higher level ones. It's much less agro.

Meso:

YES of course the class is very much a jack-of-all-trades, master of none kind of class. We bring a ton of utility and support. However in a raid situation, there is little need for most of it.

Slows: sure if the shaman are having issues or you have a LOT of adds, otherwise your better off letting them handle it.

Debuffs: same; shaman and chanter lines beat ours, so helping get some initial debuffs on if they're having problems sure.

Off-Heals: ya this never changes, from the time we get our first heal->live; keep an eye on your group mates and patch where needed... as stated cloroblast is a pretty fast cast, get some spell haste and its easy to weave in between melee attacks.

The reason we get into raids:
Spiritual line of mana regen; ADPS (Ferocity); and MGB Paragon.

None of those things take all that long to do; so beyond that we help by adding dps. We nuke, dot, have a pet, and can melee. NONE of those individually are doing a lot of damage; but add it all up and we can contribute a decent amount. Our class is designed to lean more on the caster side then the melee side of our parent classes. As such we need to be able to use the entire toolbox at our disposal to maximize our damage output.

Now, I am well aware a wiz can't just spam their best nuke over and over and not die... not asking for that at all. We just need some way to mitigate the threat created by all our little stings since they're adding threat like they're stab wounds, not insect bites.

Fixing the aggro on pet procs would help; however most of us don't use things like Rellic on raids already. The real need is one of our active aggro reducing lines to be moved up a bit. I'm not even remotely asking for Playing Possum either; that would be far too much this early.

Roar of Thunder is lv68 and came with OOW. This would be a good one to move down to 65; or clone and remove the dmg/stat debuff part of it, and just keep the -2500 theat and call it Wimper of Thunder or something :LOL:

Our Shaman and Chanters generally have the slow/debuff situation under control, Have I had to cast it a few times? Sure, maybe if we are splitting something, but generally it is over written within seconds if not instantly. Healing? Maybe I will spot heal a time or two if my cleric is in the chain, but if I am casting more than a heal or two every fight chances are we don't have enough real healers to get the job done. This takes up maybe 5% of my time on raids. Cures? Can't say that I have ever had to cure, our healers are on top of it. Aiding in CC? My pet can't be targeted by mighty buffed mobs so I don't see how it is supposed to peel the adds off a caster. Not to mention it would die in two hits if it did. Or rather, I would end up tanking the mob. Our knights do a pretty good job of handling the adds, and when we do kite mobs around it is set up in advance and done by a team that is much better equipped to handle the situation. Other than casting Paragon and Fero I'm not buffing during fights. With hotkeys I don't have to be off target for more than a few seconds to Fero someone.

All of the things you mentioned would add up to maybe 10% of my time on a raid. What am I supposed to do the other 90% of the time if I can't DPS? Auto attack and spam kick? I can see being told to moderate my DPS if I was top 5 on the parse, but we're not top 5, we are generating far too much aggro for our actual damage contribution.