As i spoke in the other thread with Jyve and the recent post of a upcoming expansion I though it would be a good idea to post ideas about the direction for the bard class and any ideas for some improvements. We are probably about 8 months away from next expansion and might be a good time to reach out with things we could use in future. Here are some ideas I had about some possible improvements. With the recent changes with fade and changes lately with tank mitigation I was wondering if it would be possible if they could give us a limited duration mitigation buff on pulls or change our mitigation table it seems like we are exceptionally squishy these days (mobs have gotten harder hitting the mitigation table we are on is still very low) as we really haven't had a upgrade in our mitigation in a long time this wasn't as much of a issue pulling with old fade if we got a lag spike we could fade right next to high red cons and slowly walk away thats gone with the invis nerf and also even if you get back to group now if tanks lack reaction time it can be a quick splat. Raiding A few other ideas our raid rolls seems to have changed over the years to entire raid resist buffer to one group additional dps buffer...some suggestions: AE cure song curse disease poison? Like the songs that proc runes on death why not a song that instead has a chance to rez Song of relife the song is a damage shield against mobs hitting it plus a endurance heal proc to the group as they melee and has a 10% chance to proc relife on a group member on death or near death if you go to zero or neg life and it triggers you get the relife skelly illusion plus full heal. Rally is amazing this was a great idea to give us a better raid nitch as a raid recovery tool Would it be possible to get another version one self only and one targetable to others put the targetable on others on shorter cool down with a recast block attached for 4 or 5 min. Leave the current form one as a self only buff to restore yourself? Group & Raid Maybe get us in on the stances thing? DPS stance & Mitigation stance for pulling (rear back mitigation increase)? Wish list AA AE mez ? AA that lets songs break stat cap similar to sham spells for str dex . AA to reduce recast times on long duration recast songs? AA the idea that we use our selos magic in our arms speeding them up? like 10-20 flurries in a row with a damage bonus. DPS Raid & Group Roar of the crowd something for our personal dps like a reverse crescendo that is a debuff. Heres the idea the effect would place a stackable proc buff on group that has a damage component say it adds + 5% per target just for the bards melee but also does normal proc damage for the group like the spite line. so every group member hits the mob and leave the stacking buff 5% x 6 30% So up to 30% the bard would get a stacking increase of 5% melee damage once the 30% is hit it can add a larger proc nuke just for the bard like a damage crescendo. Then strips the effect to start over? debuff would be on a timer of say 15 second and clear when the 25% goes off and begin re-stacking? Riposte disp that reflects back damage and one very high damage aa charge type attack that goes under the idea the bards using there speed to slash a target ... id love that in a aa that does a jump past the target as 1 slash or a few slashes alla a ff cloud type attack porting around a target very close doing smaller damage over multiple hits. Nows the time to start nudging to see what we can get before they just toss out same old crap. Please post your own ideas wants out here lets spitball this and we can have Jyve go back to them and see whats doable ... Please keep it constructive and give ideas you want to see ...Jyve can you comple stuff in a list at the end and see what the consensus is ? Flash...
I feel with the way classes are now and everyone seeming to have a niche, bards are still one of the most underpowered "adps" classes, especially when it comes to trying to molo modern content. It probably wouldn't hurt to improve their dps a little by adding maybe new spam discis(because only having selos kick to mash is boring) that do dmg or an upgrade to thousand blades, etc. Group cure song is another good idea. They could maybe also improve the proc dmg gained from suffering/arcane as well for bards to boost dps a tad.
I think AE or even group cure is a bad idea. song weaves are already fairly long now and having to weave a reactive like that in would be a giant pita, especially if bards started having to assist with curing roles in raids. Looks to me like all the paladins really really liked having that job For the song side, make dots useful again. Really don't need anything more than that here. What we do need, is abilities for personal dps that use our stamina bar. We're a hybrid, let's start playing more like one. Our combat abilities window is empty, and almost entirely useless. Also, wouldn't be bad to combine some of the AA buttons we have now. Don't really want another hot bar, but if we're going for new stuff, let's focus on endurance usage finally.
Things I'd like to see In beta, although at that point it was too late, I proposed a self-rune ability, "Defying Rhyme", on a quick timer (for pulling, raiding mishaps whatever) that would give bards a bit of a buffer. This could even cost some endurance or mana (whichever), but I'd like something that would continue to be upgraded over time that would ward off like 1.5 rounds (on average, current group content... just a guess at a decent number) or at least part of a round from a raid mob. I'd like to see it with a short cool down... whether that would be 30/60/90s reuse, I don't know what would be appropriate. Dissonant Chord - Increase target level limit already! - A snap aggro ability introduced in CotF (the "in-between" expansion, player level cap was 100) with a target level limit of 105, five levels higher than the player level cap at the time. The player level cap was increased to 105 in TDS. This ability was not upgraded. TBM was released, another "in-between" expansion, and the ability was still not upgraded. I think it's more than due time that we see an increase to its target level limit. This ability is incredibly useful when it can be used... it can be used to save group/raid members (snap aggro to let them recover/get healed) or for pulling a mob off the group/raid to kite or memblur it. A very useful tool I'd love to see return. Shield of Notes - Bard's self-vie / defensive ability - It's a joke. The absorb percentage is amazing, but at max rank it only absorbs a total of 150k damage. That's nothing. Besides Deftdance Discipline, that's our only real defensive ability, and it's on a 20 minute reuse timer! It lasts just under 2 minutes, but really, it never lasts more than a couple rounds. Add a few 100ks to the total and decrease the reuse timer so we have something there. And on the same note, it would be nice to see an upgrade to the Rain of Fear bard breastplate clicky, "Rhyme of Refuge", another vie ability. (Separate timer than arpeggio clicky, pretty please?) Issue Tracker I'll just take this moment to mention that I've put a few things on the issue tracker regarding bards that I'd like to see fix / changed. Go vote if you agree with them! EQ-774 -- Improvement: Allow Dirge of the Sleepwalker AA to stack with mez songs and not overwrite/block them EQ-689 -- Improvement: Split Shauri's Levitation out from Shauri's Sonorous Clouding AA into its own ability and rename it "Agilmente's Aria of Eagles", as it should have been from the start EQ-596 -- Bug: Subtlety Disabled ability hotbutton text should be worded "Enable Subtlety" similar to its "Disable Subtlety" counterpart EQ-512 -- Bug: Fade should not break charm (side effect of the fade changes patch) EQ-357 -- Bug: Lure of Siren's Song is a PBAE and the bard's current target should not be used to determine whether the ability can be activated or not EQ-334 -- Improvement: Change Quick Time AA worn off message to something unique (same as Selo's atm) EQ-122 -- Improvement: Allow PBAE dot songs to affect fleeing mobs (mainly for TLP at this point) Comments to the above posts A group cure song would be a "nice to have" song. A self-rally would be great. In raids, whenever I die, that usually means someone else died, and they could use a rally too. Songs with heroic stats or ones that go over the cap would be nice to see, but I'd be concerned they wouldn't be powerful enough to be worth playing over something else. They would need a significant amount of those stats or tied in with some other benefit. Regarding our old role of resists buffer, maybe they could do something with our Psalm of the Forsaken line... add in a decent mitigation % of spell damage or something and maybe combine it with the effects of Song of Recalcitrance and/or Mirror Melody. Requiem for the Dead (and its previous version) is an awful song. The benefit it gives is way, way too weak as is... the rune is trivial damage. To be worth playing, it needed some other active benefit while running. A song with a chance for divine intervention would be interesting, but it would still need some active benefit to be worth considering in the lineup imo. Endurance regen/proc benefit of some sort would probably tie in nicely with it to make it a recovery song. Maybe even add in the effects of Requiem for the Dead on top of it. It would be nice to see our chant songs have some play besides an aggro tool. It would be nice to see them do some damage, but if that's out of the question, maybe add modifiers to the debuff that increases incoming damage of a certain type in some way. We have had various songs that would lower things like dexterity, agility, and armor class. Might be nice to have those sort of debuffs here too. An attack debuff would be nice. They are taking a look at dots... maybe we'll be included in those changes if they remember us. It would definitely be nice to have some discipline options / whatever that use endurance. A second sort of dps disc would be nice (Thousand Blades is almost 11 minutes reuse, which is a significant amount of lull time for us being that's our only dps discipline). A riposte disc has been mentioned before... would be a nice option to have, not necessarily a need. And along that line, just to have options open, a discipline to improve throwing damage (timer not shared) would be interesting to see for those occasional ranged fights. Personally, I'd prefer not to see spam abilities added... It'd just be another line in a hotkey. Selo's Kick is enough imo. Now, abilities with shorter reuses (similar to Dichotomic duration / maybe longer) might be interesting to see.
As a lifelong EQ player (15 years+), I would be thrilled to see another race be able to be a bard. It was a good shock to see the froglok monk and wood elf beastlord; And, this gave me hope to maybe see an expansion of bard into another race. @Roshen , @Windstalker P.S. might be even more awesome to see an entirely new race!
I would agree an AE/group cure would be amazing the single target cure we have is a very good one and its a lvl 96 so its been sometime since its been upgraded, I have to hit it a few times but it covers all the ikky stuff that debuffs in the game, very few things wont be effected by it. If a bard doesnt have this loaded during several raid encounters you are not helping like you should be. Bards have 1 of the better single target cures just simply for the fact it covers everything and when its done casting you can cast it again. AA AE Mez would be absolutely killer, AE Mez is a huge song for a bard, i wouldnt want it to completely replace my AE mez song but it would be uber to have an AA AE mez version like dirge sleepwalker, also fix the stacking issue with Dirge Sleepwalker vs our song mez would be really nice to, cause timing it during a raid can be difficult but is the only option we currently have if we had to use it. Requiem for the dead is useless..... the rune when some one dies is terrible, and having it on right when some one dies is even tougher to time cause during raids players can drop faster than a person can react, it can also happen during group content some of these mob/s can get rounds and you drop. Dissonant Chord - being able to tag monsters that are actually on my level or plus, during raids would be FANTASTIC, its a very good ability but doesnt get enough use cause of the level cap on it currently. Tanks get wrecked in raids/group content and being able to be a bard like the old days step up and take it until some one else grabs it off of you would be awesome, we do wear plate....... Disciplines for bards need a bit of an update.... thousands blade and deftdance are nice but lvl 55 & 69, is to say a bit outdated when we are lvl 105 and depending on the next expac level may increase or not, some sort of defense disc would be nice we have the ability to use a shield give us a shield disc, even if it is a riposte disc it would be nice. The Idea of using selos for our arms in some kind of 10 minute reuse disc would be really cool as well, 11 minutes for our only dps disc does seem long. When soooo man classes have quite a few discs to choose from that are on separate timers. Shield of Notes/ Last Stand - I have to use them together and for current content dont last long enough to make much of a difference, i have them both on one button so they both fire, but even doing a named in TDS they can beat through it in no time. If it had a good bit more damage stacked on it before it would fade that would be amazing!!!! Maybe some upgraded ranks that are a good %, not a tiny hit....... Bard Dots - well unless these are super duper buffed they are still not worth using during raids, cause a necro dot will always out damage our dots, Raid mobs have a certain amount of slots for debuffs and they fill up fast with slows/debuffs and big dmg dots, 54 people and only 80 something debuffs slots. our raids bards dont even use debuffs on boss unless FD. If this have to stand still to dot things would change that would be mind blowing, bards have selos, we are a very mobile class always have been and still are, so making us stand around for ae+single target dots is bad. The different kind of debuffs on different bard dots would be a nice thing to see, the dot might not do huge damage but if it adds a debuff of a certain type would be handy to have, would make using a dot a lot more viable. Melee dps buff would be great! I like the idea of the song/AA stacking up 5% at a time to 30% would be a NICE dmg increase for us even if once it got to 30% it reset back to 5%, but if its going to stack a debuff on the mob there will be issues, If its something that stacks on us in the song/buff window that would be really nice. Even with Innate Spellblade maxed it says 66% increase for all melee damage but after lots of parses it doesnt seem like 66% more like a 6% increase. When this first came out i was super excited but parse after parse i just didnt see much difference. Self rune - this would be very nice for pulling and what not, the rumbling barrier has the right idea but so many mobs are immune to stuns that i just never use it cause i dont have the space on my song bar to drop a useful staple song for something that might not even work. A song that acts like an enchanter rune would be super hotsauce and would be something worth keeping on the song bar all the time. Maybe if it fades or if its broken have the cooldown reduced by half, lots of ways that it could be useful in the heat of the moment, pulling or high dmg raids. I know lots of people who still die from AE emotes in arx raids and TBM has been out some time now. New bard races this would be quite a refreshing thing for bards we do have pretty limited races, dark elf bards oooooooh yes please, high elf bards look good in that plate. If i had to use a wood elf illusion to look like a bard that would be pretty funny
I really dislike the current direction of the class and people's requests for more personal dps. As a bard, I am only interested in two things (in order) - 1. Amplification 2. Utility I wish I could trade ALL of my personal dps (weapons) for the ability to play instruments and meaningfully amplify all abilities (not just dps) of my group.
I totally wish all we could do is sing songs and afk in raids to boost dps /sarcasm off. Making us an afk bot is not helping the class any further.
When did I say I wanted an afk bot, yee of little imagination? If devs wanted to make us mash 30 buttons and constantly switch out real instruments in order to effectively boost others' abilities, thatd be fine with me. We should be able to sacrifice our personal dps for the overall gain of our groups. You would be better off making a rogue if you want more personal dps and stop begging for it on bards where it doesnt belong... And it is a shame that people like you have pushed devs into making adps the focus of our class, when there are so many things a bard should be able to meaningfully affect other than people's dps.
I don't mind working harder to play my class well, but hate button mashing, item swapping etc. That kind of thing gives a distinct advantage to people using . I think EQ is moving away from having so many spam buttons. I'd be ok with like 3 buttons to mash, tops.
Honestly in this day and age of EQ you need to realize that there is so few bards simply because bards are extremely terrible to solo on, the days of EQ being a heavily group populated game are long gone and people are forced to solo or box. Bard DPS is heavily stagnated behind every other ADPS's ability to DPS for example - Chanters, they can out tank, out dps, out CC, and out adps bards(for casters) and many other classes. I'm not saying I want to be godmode like them but I would love to actually be able to put raid gear to use instead of struggling to molo TBM trash mobs or even older expansion mobs...... In groups we are lucky if our sustained dps even really tops 25k and thats having to use our 1 burn. Melee dps on the other hand sustain 65k+ in raid gear in groups. This is why I would love to have a sustained dps boost disci so we can at least reach 35k+ in raid gear and attract people to play more bards. Sitting back and swapping instruments would absolutely kill the class for me as it's already easy enough to play.
I was exaggerating, but you get my point . I just want instruments to mean something. When people invite one bard to their group, I want it to feel like they just added two people to their group because of how much the bard can improve everyone other than himself. You are thinking about this all wrong, comparing how bard dps or tanking matches up to (insert class here). Bards should be all about synergy with others, and you wouldnt need to solo if people were clamoring to add you for your ability to improve THEM. I really dont see why you didnt just roll a pure dps class instead of asking to turn bards into second rate rogues.
I play and raid on both ADPS and DPS classes, I spend days lfg on my bard with no luck and forced to solo. There is legitimately no way to exactly make our ADPS significantly good for any class these days without it blowing their dps out of proportion.
Like I said, if bards made a significant impact on their groups, you wouldnt have trouble finding a group. As far as it being impossible to make bards amplify their groups without making it overpowered - forgive me if I dont accept that coming from someone other than a developer. This is a game and the developers can make ANYTHING possible via the programming. All it takes is time, the only question is whether they are willing to spend that time.
Bards do make a significant impact on the group, but it could be a better impact for where things are at this point in the game. If people arent inviting a bard to the group its cause they dont know what a bard can actually do or they have one in the group already. Bards do a lot more than just help DPS, Dicko is off the chain right now, regens, AC, crescendo + all the other adps things we get to choose from, our stuff just needs to be tweeked a bit more for this next patch or expac, yes bards are the jack of all trades master of none, im not asking for godmode, we just dont need to be sooo spoony, my nice weps hit like pool noodles and thats just silly.
We got 3 revamped insturments from PoHate been a long time since you could buy something like that on a raid vendor or get one to drop, granted the click effects are nicer than actually using the instrument, but it would be cool if holding one would give us a high% its been capped for a while give us a keytar that would be the ultimate jam tool
if our instrument modifiers worked properly we maybe could have a reason to use instruments again. but since they don't, it is completely unreasonable for us to take 20 minutes to kill something that takes a similarly geared anything else to down in 20 seconds, with the exception of tanks. So many of our abilities do not work on ourselves comparatively. We should have personal DPS discs, but we should also have other discs as well. Unless they do something very creative with instruments, they will continue to be useless. They tried this in HoT with the +dps off hand instruments, and they were garbage even in that expansion because using them did not boost our songs at all and we *lost* dual wield dps. Also, the idea of going back to swapping instruments constantly is nonsense. It was nonsense in the original game back in 99, and would be even worse now. Bandoleer be damned.
Whats nonsense is people trying to turn the bard class into something it wasnt intended to be, sending us even further in the wrong direction. Maybe you should roll a monk, you would be more content with your life.
