Why is soloing so slow?

As far as I can tell, killing a blue mob solo and in a 6 man group gives identical experience. This really harms several classes that are not traditionally attractive to groups but solo well (wizard, druid, necro). It also screws with other DPS classes that don't solo as well but could really use the group spot taken up by a potential soloer. And it messes with potentially efficient smaller groups--they'll always just be MUCH worse than a full group. In consequence, any time you log onto phinigel (the problem is very different with boxes) there are many DPS classes looking for a group unsuccessfully.

Would anyone object to doubling or even tripling the rate of solo experience? Do you think this would help the LFG logjam? What's the downside? Why is it currently this way--is it just an (unintended) result of how the XP has been slowed on these servers?

It's an intended result, deliberately established to promote grouping and community formation. Has nothing to do with progression servers specifically but the principle applies as much here as on live. Doubt you're going to see any return to soloing being king.

It's a real shame that they feel the need to constantly try to 'fix' the game, they usually just make it worse.

The increased regen on npc's, coupled with increased group exp and nerfing of exp quests, has really changed the base game a lot.

That along with the slow exp, fast expansion unlocks, and all the revamped zones, along with the rampant RMT'ing, has really made this a short return for me. Some of the decisions they make is absolutely baffling.

Havn't played for years, and was just checking TLP's. I don't remember everquest being a game where everybody just sits with mages boxed as different camps, farming kronos for their RMT.

Most of the zones i was in whilst trying to lvl, had a bunch of highlvls in them either PL'ing or farming stuff, none of them was interested in grouping. So i guess if you don't go to the 3 popular lvl'ing areas you are just SoL, if you want to go explore things, sorry, the exp is so bad that everyone is forced into the same bottlenecked lvl areas, to maximize exp.

Somehow it seems like they are doing what they can to screw things up, just look at new freeport, nobody could have ever thought that was a good idea, but they put it in anyway. Seems like they are out of touch.

I'll still be reading forums to look out for a server locked in PoP or a return of the revamped zones/npcs, but it seems like whoever made the original game such an iconic piece of culture, is either no longer working at DBG, or has changed too much.

Which server?

This is complete opposite of my experience on Phinigel. Exactly 100% of the people I saw PLing characters over level 15ish always offered to group. People with boxes often kept boxes out of group or until they could just replace a lost member.

Personally i think daybreak reduce the xp to please a lot of the people who haven't play eq for years.When tlp started a lot of people complained that xp was too fast so i figure they decided that next server would try to please those people who wanted a more classic experience.If you were on fippy at 1 point they put a maximum of 2% xp on kills so a lot of people wants to have more time to experience more zones before getting at max levels. I know there is a portion of each server who feel the opposite way. Personally i didn't find the xp that bad on phinny.Maybe i'm lucky to be in a guild that can find group more easily but i can manage it atm.Don't forget once you are at 60 you gonna be there for a long while with just aa to worry about and of course getting all the nice gear.

IMO, this is completely false (the group part, not the solo part, they do solo well.)

just means it is a massive multiplayer online game... not group only game.... means there is lots of REAL ppl around and not just NPCs

other games have varying degrees of solving this problem.

Diablo 3 - solo xp up to now is 18x slower than group xp, with an ideal composition. Next season they are fixing it to be much closer by reducing the amount of xp at certain levels. It is still inferior but there is more parity. Maybe they could find a way to dynamically scale the mobs hitpoints for soloers so its easier for them and they have less downtime.

Well, maybe someone wants to get some experience in the short time they're able to play (before work, before bed, before they go out) and don't have time to join an actual group.

Maybe someone just wants to be by themselves for a little while because they had a bad day and they want to be alone.

Perhaps someone really likes, for example, root rotting or fear kiting on a necro or shaman but they don't have as much fun doing what those solo classes traditionally do in a group, which is very different than solo.



There are all sorts of reasons someone would want to solo that don't necessarily mean they're wearing a black hoodie, listening to the Cure with black paper draped over their windows and hissing at anyone who comes into their room. I'm not really sure why whenever anyone posts anything on this forum, there are always people they just go straight to hostility and dismissiveness, regardless of what was posted.

This is the way I understand how XP works, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this breaks it down very simply although I rarely see it explained this way.

XP is capped at a certain amount per kill. Everyone is used to using percentages because that's all we see ingame, but just like any RPG (or I guess many genres use xp/levels now) there are real numbers behind those percentages. I'm going to use madeup numbers, but the analogy stands.

Let's say that at your level you are capped at getting 100 XP per kill. You and all your buddies are all the same level. You log on before any of them and do a little solo'ing. You are pretty good at solo'ing so you aren't killing garbage green mobs - you are killing yellow cons and getting the full 100 XP per kill.

Now your first buddy gets home from work early and you two duo these same mobs. You both are capping out though and each still getting 100 XP per kill, because the mob is actually worth a lot more than 100 XP per kill -- you just happen to be capping out. It's true that there's an XP bonus for groups with people, but it's not really factoring in here. The mob is worth more than 200 XP per kill total, so you each get 100 XP, you both cap out, and any remainder is forfeited.

Then the rest of your buddies all get home from work, you form a six man group, and you keep killing the same mobs.

What you don't know (or haven't figured out yet) is that these mobs are actually worth about 1000 XP per kill. But that doesn't matter, because the most XP per kill that can be earned by your group is 600 XP per kill, divided up evenly between you all. The group bonus doesn't even matter, because every kill 400 XP is forfeit after you each get your (capped) share of 100 XP.

I don't have any problem with this system. I think it encourages grouping and socializing and was a good change.

I don't think that experience is determined that way.

No, it still is. You are focusing too much on the gross XP (before cap/forfeit) if you're using that as a reason to reject my theory.

My argument, again, is based on the assumption that the group is not killing green trash.

Let's say the same players are killing lower level stuff that yields 100 XP per kill, and each player still caps at 100 XP per kill.

Our solo guy gets 100 XP when he kills the mob.

When he and his buddy duo, they each get 60 XP (50 XP + 20%) per kill.

When all six of them group up they each get 20 (100 XP / 5) or 30 XP (100 XP / 6 * 1.8), the math in the patch notes is a little fuzzy to me.

Anyway, my theory fits with what's stated in the patch notes you've quoted. TLP servers have a per-kill XP cap, and all of this goes hand in hand.

That is your conclusion of the word, you play with the others by trading in CL tunnel, doesn't have to group with them.

The world is like a MMO, you can do stuff ALONE or you can do stuff TOGETHER... Just like you could in EQ but now they made it worse then it had to be, some classes had always had natural solo abilities, they try to nerf those now and then but there is no reason to... ppl play the classes and style they like... if they remove the style they like, they remove the reason for those people to play the game.

They nerfed the XP so people will pay dollars to get XP potions and they can milk more money out of the server. It's right out of the VC handbook.

Your theory doesn't work -- at least in the context of the OP.

"Soloing BLUE mobs feels like it rewards the same as grouping for blue mobs" (OP)
Soloing a red definitely gives more exp than soloing a blue, so it is safe to assume that no one is "capping out" when they solo a blue.

Napkin math:
Going by the 80% bonus split 5 ways --
100 xp kill X 1.8 = 180/5 = 36 xp
Solo 100 xp = 100 xp a kill

So a group of 6 has to kill nearly 3 x as fast before they overtake the solo player.

TBH, I think most people don't realize how much more efficiently and quickly they are killing stuff in groups. And that's all there is to it : /

I don't think your math is correct. It's not the capped experience being split by the group, it's the mobs total experience value.

Mobs exp value: 1000 (for example)
(Group) 1000 * 1.8 = 1800 / 6 = 300 exp (but capped at 100 each)
(Solo) 1000 = 100 (capped exp)

It's certainly much better to group than solo because of how much easier/faster it is to plow through mobs for that 100 exp.

I am all for encouraging grouping. It really sucks LFG when there's a party of 3 killing stuff but they don't want you because it will slow down their exp.. but it's so bad for solo people right now that it's not even worth doing. It could be balanced a little better I think so that soloing is viable but grouping still the better choice.

I don't think the situation is quite as extreme as your numbers imply. I'm not sure whether there even is a cap per kill.

I do know that a good group can kill more than 6 times faster than most individuals can, providing the are enough mobs, which certainly helps with the soloing=slow perception.

Remember, when doing the math, that the 6th group member is free. A full group experience rate is 180% divided by 5 rather than 6. A group of 5 and 6 get identical individual experience for the same mob kill. Kiris is applying this, others often don't appear to do it.

On Fippy there was a very obvious hard cap. That seems to be gone. I believe there is still a soft cap though, but I have yet to do hard math with any semblance of proof of it. Maybe it's totally just group efficiency, as stated by others, but my personal experience is very clearly that I get the best solo xp plowing blues and light blues, while getting the best group xp plowing yellows and reds.

Not 100% true. I do agree it probably accounts a very great deal for some of the confirmation bias but there is no explaining away all of it. When you invite players to leech xp and they are afk, kill rate goes completely unchanged, and xp rate does not drop quite as low as it should. The numbers were comparable when plastering light blues and greens (eg sage/exe/cav/sav with leeches) such that one leech would mean about 2/3 and a full group of leeches 1/3 the xp of solo. Harder mobs... no.

I believe there is either a group bonus for killing higher-con mobs or some kind of soft cap that groups help to diminish. I am certain that solo xp when killing higher-con mobs does not add up otherwise.

wtb actual exp numbers instead of just percentage display

wtb a dev response with facts!

Good luck trying to squeeze numbers out of them!! It would be nice though.