Except there are numerous other classes that are 'cheatmode' and are not penalized. And your wrong, there isn't a more oppressed class then Magicians over the last 3 years and then some. You can look at all of the update posts and see that pretty clearly. As to the solo power, how does that hold any bearing in the raid game? Do you guys lose your group power when going into the raid game? Nope, Magicians do though considering the pet tanking power doesn't fly in raids. So, why are penalized because our pets tank well in the group game and can not tank in the raid game? Your argument is flawed because your comparing apples to oranges and not apples to apples. You can't compare 1 classes group prowess to another classes raid prowess. Need to compare Raid to Raid and Group to Group. And people were picking Magicians because of the boosts they passively got in SoF. As you can see there are numerous posts about the nerfs those pets received based on them reducing the benefits of the SoF boosts to pets. Of course Mage's would be OP on TLP now, considering the class saw changes and boosts that make the class not in the same spot it was in classic.
I appreciate your reply PiemastaJ. But I think you should realize other people do consider the fact you have solo/molo/grouptank advantages in your class balance equation. And I'm here to tell you that it certainly factors in my opinion. I regularly have my magician groupmates as my primary tank. And when I'm trying to solo these tbm tasks, guess who is tanking for me? Me. All this crap summons. What I have to do to get by, is root something then nuke it... get summoned.... back off and get off one nuke and wait till I get resummoned... back up and do it again. Often the cleric merc will get herself killed while standing next to the rooted mob trying to out-heal it instead of moving over. It's slow going. Regular 4 minute merc respawn timers to refill my drinks at least. Mages have huge advantages, AND they are among the top 2-3 dps classes on parses. I've seen them beat me on parses and wondered how they did it. I can't just show up waving my wizard flag and expect to beat anyone. Yes I agree mages have been nerfed a lot lately, because they were quite uber. But the stuff I was talking about hasn't changed.... in fact it even got better with the new TBM pet holding agro over PCs in melee range change. If magicians beat my wizard on parses over a few minutes, id be losing most every parse. Everything lasts longer than that. Then when I was done I should go root tank stuff with my leet class balance?
Someone doesn't read patch notes or adapt to new spells. But there's enough heal casts in there to wreck a 100s parse, even with a good dps spell set. Oh god, that list gets worse and worse as I keep looking at there, there's a druid epic click in there. Manaburn makes cross comparing parses really difficult. Instead of seeing a 10 to 20% variation on my own week to week parses, I'm seeing up to about a 60% variation. Mages have been getting really screwed recently, they're actually going backwards in power level when compared against themselves. Even ignoring class vs class comparisons, they're just getting worse with additional expansions.
Your playing poorly then. It is impossible for you to lose to a Mage currently. Even harder in group content because of the limited mob HPs. Allowing pets to tank with PCs in range does nothing but asks for more nerfs, and it wasn't done for our sake it was for TLP. Its not a good change, its a really bad change because they are tailoring content towards TLP not the actual game people are playing years later. And also, our pets lack tools to actually be the main tank. Again another terrible idea by DBG. You think my merc moves easier then your merc? lol. You never answered my question, where is the draw back for your group game? I mean if my class is to be nerfed for ours, surely Wizards should see some kind of DPs loss in group content for raid dominance? That is the illogical reasoning all Wizards seem to use. Your being hypocritical saying my group game matters where yours does not. But when pets aren't tanking, where do I gain an advantage? The only advantage gained is WHEN pets are tanking, when they are not I lose all my tanking prowess and become an under powered class. Which, comparing group game to group game with mob HPs you should destroy me there also, but then again that brings about the all around good points for Wizards and you guys having nearly no negatives when the mob is being tanked. You even have forms of CC to pull with lol.
That is pretty funny, mages aren't beating everybody else, in fact they are out dpsed by most of the other dps classes. "why did everybody on the new server make a mage"... that has a pretty easy answer as well, its called, the TLP servers are freaking stupid and the devs can't manage to code to what EQ really was back then. They have no idea how to reproduce the old pet code and with all the changes pets have had between then and now its no wonder the pets are so badly out of balance when looked at from the TLP standpoint. The devs have NO FREAKING CLUE how much AC the original Epic pet had, or how much avoidance they had, nor do they know about the other lower level pets. The pets don't even act the same on TLP servers as they *really* did back in the day, but you would have needed to actually play pet classes back in the day to understand the differences. Saying wizards were the most oppressed class back then is a sad joke. Clearly you never played a SK back then. Hell, I remember when most of the rogues skills didn't even work. The devs hadn't made necro spells beyond lvl 34 because they didn't think anybody would progress that fast... Back in the day TONS of classes had issues. I'd love to know all the sacrifices you think wizards back back in the day to be wizards. When the devs decide to admit they screwed up and ask for advice on how to fix it ... the game will improve, or at least back to not sucking so badly. Given the current devs track records I personally don't think they can fix it, I actually think it will get a lot worse. Just because your class escaped this time doesn't mean your day isn't coming, it is. Savil
Making false statements is always bad, and is what I am very much against, because they contribute to dismissal of the problem, not advance awareness of it. I see your point, as far as guilds NOT accepting magician apps over wizard apps, that I can agree with, but it has been that way for several years now. Wizards are much easier to play, have almost no drawbacks when raiding, and a mediocre wizard will always beat a mediocre magician, and by a lot. As has been said, wizards have zero drawbacks to their DPS when raiding, and are much easier to play well. Magicians' pets, as many have said, are actually a drawback when raiding, NOT a benefit. Magicians SHOULD get tools to use when raiding that make up for this drawback. I would like you to state which guild has benched a very well played magician for lack of DPS, for these many magicians you have spoken with that have been benched for wizards. I still flat out do not believe it, if they are well played magicians, and believe that a well played magician will still consistently be in the top 12 or so of overall damage in a night. You say you WOULD bench yourself, if that situation was there, not that you HAVE, which, itself implies that you HAVE NOT benched yourself because you're 'too low' of DPS. I say that the statement that guilds have done so is complete BS. Mediocre or poorly played magicians, I have no doubt believing though. High end guilds do not have DPS problems beating events, and mid tier guilds have ESPECIALLY hard problems with melee DPS, due to lack of skill, tremendous amount of aDPS coordination required, and filling perfect melee groups. I cannot believe that well played magicians are being benched for lack of DPS on raids, and should not be the basis for requesting improvements... Almost everyone is saying that magicians need some sustained DPS improvements. However, the following statements are all TRUE, and should be the basis for requesting improvements: Magicians can be out BURST DPS'd by necros and wizards, easily out sustained by both classes, require the most aDPS support of any caster, and by far are the weakest raiding casters. We have the least amount of utility and self survivability tools of any caster, have a drawback of our pets being a good portion of our DPS, knowing they have very high agro, die easily, and are not perfectly controllable, which all are tremendously BAD in raid environments. With all these drawbacks, magicians are the least desired caster class in the raid environment, and we need some boosts to our sustained DPS in the raid environment to keep our desirability in raids high, please.
My current guild, Raging Fury, regularly benches mages. Given, we have five magicians on our roster. My guild before that, the Darkwind, used to bench mages for basically anything resembling DPS. My guild before that, Immortal Sunrise, only fielded two magicians, which rarely were online at the same times. Only one was wanted in the raid, normally.
This made me chuckle. I can resemble dps. I'll swap to DW and people will think I'm a ranger Or even better, a bard!
not to detract from this conversation but have you ever thought about doing a write up again on the mage tower for current dps stuff Piemastaj?
