I didn't mean to make you upset Roxxana. You did have a very valid point that the game should be more about parsing numbers.
I wasn't upset, I was being serious, I am often a bit naive about certain aspects of the game, benching someone for no other reason but someone with a higher dps class came along is completely foreign to me. I don't play a mage, but I raid with many, and I enjoy their company. You throw some dps,save a cleric, hand her a rod, earn some coin........that sounds like a good day to me. To the op, just be exceptional at whatever class you play, the rest will fall into place.
The issue for a number of classes is that it's kinda lousy to have to be "exceptional" to justify a raid spot. I'm obviously not a Mage, but feel in the same boat at times, and I'd say I earn my raid spot despite my class, not because of it. Mages are in a similar boat these days (along with others). Being a strong group class shouldn't inherently make one be a really poor raid one, but it's a fine line for devs in a 6 person group, 54 person raid layout with 16 classes and 15 years worth of game complexity.
I understand what your saying, but just being a cleric guarantees me nothing. I'm not even in a raid guild, yet I'm raid flagged and geared through Arx 5. I have to shine just a little bit brighter than the raid guilds 8-10 clerics to get a spot. Being exceptional gives you options, if your guild benches you, find another.
The sad part about all of this is the fact they can EASILY fix the Magician class, revert rains to their original form. I also wouldn't mind some critical damage mods being thrown on our spire again.. Hell they could revert rains then add heavy rain AA and then the mana efficiency they were talking about wouldn't be there. Sadly at this point I can't see them going back and reverting the changes they made just because it would show to the entire community they were wrong in making the change. Also our Dicho spell is so under powered it's not even funny. A Wizard can crit 6+ mill a minute with theirs, yet ours isn't even comparable. I don't think it should do millions of damage( Mage dicho ), but I do think it should be as good as our biggest nuke or better ( Of many at full power ). I know Pie said the rain nerf wasn't from parses posted, but I seen who was on the thread in question and also seen who came to the defense of the devs as soon as the thread that outlined the nerfs got posted, coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think so. I honestly don't see the situation Mages are in changing anytime soon. It would basically take the devs admitting they were wrong to do so and I never seen that happen. #BringBackTheRains!
The "devs" are so completely out of touch with this game its not even funny. The really sad part is they don't even have the guts to tell us why they completely screwed up the class in the first place. One can only imagine what a day is like for them in the office... People told them in "beta" the exp was hopelessly broken, they still pushed it out the door, they knew what was broke. They knew the armor system was completely stupid and hopelessly broken, pushed it anyway, and to add insult to injury they let the only dev that had any idea how to fix it go on extended vac at the same time?! That has to be one of the all time stupid things I've seen from them. Its a good thing they work where they do, any other company would have fired them long ago. Savil
"Being exceptional" does not work for a class that can easily be replaced by a mediochre wizard, DPS-wise.
This might happen for a few top high end raiding guilds, who will accept to bench DPS A who was in time for raid for DPS B who logged later, because they min / max everything. But in the big majority of guilds, it will be first comes first serves.
Find another. It's an unacceptable practice. The guilds I've had the pleasure of raiding with are fcfs, they won't even boot a guest in favor of a late guildie, and they'd love to have another well played mage.
Actually, I would imagine the lower-end guilds are forced to do this without having the luxury of having a lot of high DPS players/classes. There are some events you need more DPS then others to win, so sitting the best Mage in EQ for a middle of the road Wizard would allow that guild to meet the check. My guild runs 4 mages consistently, and afaik not a single one of us has been asked to sit or been forced to, so we can get a better DPS class in. Its a pretty bad practice to take part in, but sometimes I could see it being necessary if you only have a handful of people able to do really good damage. I think it is hilarious that ANY class is tuned around the group game in the raid scene. It's illogical, and anyone arguing for it is doing so because they are pushing an agenda. Pretty much every class can solo now, but only some go unpunished by their ability to 'not be able to solo'. The fact that we have classes who get punished severely because they appear to solo better then others is also illogical, and shows no parity with all the other classes that can effectively solo.
I think this diverges somewhat from the actual issue: guilds should not feel pressure to sit Mages for most other DPS classes. Mages do not perform well relative to other classes in raids, which, all other things being equal, leads to a severe lack of desirability
Neither my current server-leading guild, nor the previous server-leading guild I raided with for a decade ever benched someone as you describe, francisco. You've brought this up before and every time you do, I question the premises. It's my strong feeling that if any dps is being kicked out for any other dps that arrives late, it ain't because of their class.
You, sir, can get behind us SKs in the lack of raid desirability line! Our first vim and vigor raid we literally had all sks but one playing their dps based alts. The raid leader told me, and I quote, "log in your useful toon". It's an amusing guild joke, but one sadly laced with truth!
What a slap in the face Sheex, you should move to a guild that has a better raid force where they don't need to shuffle classes like that. I can understand sitting for another main, but making them have you log your alts in is BULL SH*T. Just my opinion though.
All you had to do was read the rest of the thread where people have described this exact thing happening to them Brohg. What I question is why you care about keeping mages weak when you play a rather favored class yourself - rogues.
Nah man, not a one if us particularly cared, nor did we disagree with the request. With the holidays, raids have been a little light, and events with nothing to off tank are pretty awful for sks. The raid was a lot better off with 2 rog and 1 bst alts. Back on the Mage topic, one of the pluses to being a tank is your awareness and skill can shine a little bit even if the class need is poor. When it comes to DPS, you're pretty much judged solely on your parse numbers, so in some ways it's a crummier situation for mages, monks etc. What about requesting another spear, maybe one that is magic based instead of fire, with a better ratio of dmg to mana? It seems silly to me that wizards have ~4 ethereals and mages only have one "big" nuke in Spear. Doesn't help the efficiency front but memming a level 100 or 95 spear for lack of options has to suck.
