People agree with 90 days w/o defeating all content?

Yes, exactly. When you have on the one hand some expansions that can be beaten in 10 hours or less, and on the other hand expansions that take 3-4 months, having a one size fits all expansion release timer doesn't make sense.

How does 30 days from the content being beaten equal not knowing what you signed up for? Later expansions required flagging that require more than 90 days to complete.

If your argument is you want to experience the content, I have great news for you...lockjaw and ragefire have 5 months of kunark left, and 6 of every expansion after that...enjoy yourself.

I'm asking for 6months between expansions. Apparently I'm a no one though. I guess no one wants 6 month lockouts so bad it has passed several times at different time frames on the current TLPs.

I'd prefer 6 month expansion cycle on Phinigel; but I'd prefer 90 days to 6 month with possible voting that could possibly go either way. People seem really excited for a vote-free experience.

Let's be honest about past votes:

The more intense (effective levellers), particularly with multiple accounts made up a much higher % of those with voting rights than they were in the actual playing population. I'm looking specifically at Vulak here where many, many slow levelling people hadn't made the first vote eligibility cut off. Those slow people didn't like the vote outcome (to open Kunark) and mass quit, mostly silently.

On the other hand, the progression boards here have extremely strong representation from the effective levelling crowd that likes to raid (and race unlocks). There's a lot of threads where you even feel like it is the same person responding to themself with 3-4 different accounts.

No votes (on at least some server options) is an appealling angle. Look how many people felt "betrayed" by the Ragefire/Lockjaw voting... situation.

I also feel daybreak would be wise to continue offering more niche servers: fast-racing-unlocks, pvp-TLP-that-stops-at-PoP, Phinny rules 4 month unlock, phinny rules 12 month unlock, single-character-per account TLP, no-marketplace-or-claim-tlp, and so on. Get people playing where it will suit them better to find a like-minded community. The other option is for us to all get along of course.

There's a viable sub # to keep a server running, if a special rule server goes below that # for 3 months tweak the rules (like they did for Zek and FV) to see if it can rebound, 6 months... pull the plug via "best available" merger.

Don't worry. The content will get defeated in record time by the 18-24 of us that dominate the server along with another dozen or that jump on the top guild bandwagon. The 90 day thing is a non-factor. You're welcome.

I can almost guarantee that those who want some time greater than 90 days is in the minority. DBG has the numbers of how many people quit at what time into each TLP. I'm sure they saw that population dies at around 2-3 months and then resurges when the new expansion drops, and that's why they chose 90 days -- to maximize subscription retention.

yeah but previous data is not good. You cannot judge people that left because the raid scene was a mess and their guild couldnt touch anything, now they can kill every target every week. Its gonna keep a lot of casual guilds

I think no voting is a win, it has only caused acrimony before. This adds certainty. I think if they went ahead and said that LoY/LDon gets its own 90 days after 90 days in PoP that would be a nice compromise. Worrying about Underfoot now is just way too early.

I'd rather have one size fits all with none of it in DBG's hands than any alternative. They've proven time and time again they don't play their own games and if given any flexibility or leeway will be assured to self destruct whatever they tamper with.

DB should start this server in Kunark and allow 1 character transfer from either Lockjaw or Ragefire. In order to stop the Markets from being disrupted, then all gear/items are flagged No-Drop from the transferred character. and set a limit on amount of pp that can transfer as well. We can then pick up roughly where we left off and continue from there.

I do like the fixed no voting process, but I would prefer just a little bit more time between expansions... say 4 months instead of 3. I am not a grinder, but also don't like to feel rushed to keep up with current expansion/content.

1 reason for my suggestion is that I spent the real cash to buy the TLP server only 40 slot bag on 2 separate accounts and feel kind of ripped off that they officially announce this new server about 2 weeks after the bags came out. Maybe they will reimburse, but I doubt it. They have their cash and won't want to compensate.

That's a great point.

The point of the thread and suggestion wasn't that 90 days wasn't long enough, but that the 90 days should start only once content had been defeated. And for Underfoot, make it 4 or 4.5 months. How difficult could this be to do to finally have a perfect server?

I agree. I would like to see 90 days, no voting from the time the content was beaten. Exception would be PoP and Underfoot which I would like to see at 4 months. To me, that would be the ideal server. But because of it being nearly perfection, and DBG being so stubborn and late to recognize anything, we won't see it.

for every1 saying 3 months of PoP isn't enough... PoP will effectively be at least 6 months - legacy of ykesha is hardly an expansion and I don't think that LDON upgraded ppl's gear either (but don't quote me on that one). ppl talking about underfoot and beyond though... I really don't know, but it would be a shame if it necessarily required over 3 months. for the top raiding guilds that really doesn't seem right though. if it takes those who play 15+ hours a day in coordination 18 whole weeks to beat underfoot, then it would take me YEARS... you guys must be wrong???? I've never played underfoot but I find in highly unlikely that there's so much content. even more unlikely than everyone in here being wrong about underfoot despite the fact that no one corrected any of them (which also seems highly unlikely but 1 of these things has happened).

12 Vox raids
12 Naggy raids
12 Phinny raids
etc.

If some guilds never hit anything but the instanced raids they're going to be pretty busy. As for the top Guilds you have to think that quite frequently the open world version and their own instanced raids are going to coincide often enough that they will be skipping open raids just to avoid the hassle of having anyone else in the zone

Dude, those raids have NOTHING to do with PoP!

Machen, how do we get DBG's attention to do this? Will they listen? By the time Monday comes around, these ideas will be buried under useless comments or the thread shut down completely because it wasn't "constructive".

I agree with 90 days once all progression tasks is completed, with the exception of just a few expansions you guys have mentioned. I would like to have a little extra time in PoP/LDoN than 90 days (in this context I am using them both as one release). Underfoot being only 90 days is insane.

But for the most part, I love 90 days with no stupid polls.

I never said 30 days from content being beaten doesn't equal knowing what you signed up for, not sure where you pulled that one out of. As far as experiencing content on RF or LJ, that is a dumb argument, I can go experience content on any server actually. However MY personal preference is 90 days per xpac on this server with no bot, no box, traditional box, whatever it's called and instanced raiding. You're more than welcomed to your own opinion but I like it as is.

Some of the later expansions(SoF comes to mind) have artificial roadblocks such as raids with 4.5 day lockouts that only drop 12?" flags" or keys to the next teir of raids in that expansion. Meaning you have to do the same event multiple times to advance your raid force. And there are multiple tiers of raids that do this

My guess is that there is nothing we can do to change their minds at this point. There's a reason they announced this particular unlock timing with no discussion or voting this time around. I suspect it is in part an overreaction--On Ragefire/Lockjaw it seemed they tried to do everything the more vocal part of the player base asked for, and every change seemed to just make the servers worse and worse. I am guessing their attitude is now, "We're done listening to you guys!" Of course they will never say this!

The other part of this, I think, is that what the players think they want/will vote for, may actually be different than what the players will remain subscribed for. Everyone knows that longer unlocks was the most popular vote option on both Ragefire and Lockjaw (even if it didn't necessarily have a majority.) And yet here we are, less than halfway through Kunark on both servers, and population seems to be plummeting, especially on Ragefire where Kunark has been live for some time. Of course the Phinny announcement didn't help things but everyone was complaining about lower numbers prior to that. This may be a case of Daybreak deciding, if they give us what we ask for, we will get bored and stop subscribing--so they will decide for us, and go what is optimal for subscriber retention.

By all means we should keep asking--90 days after expansion is defeated makes a lot of sense to me, and solves my concerns with regard to underfoot and other long expansions--but I will personally be surprised if they budge.