So, when is Harm Touch getting nerfed?

Let's just be very clear. The practice dying out had absolutely nothing to do with SoE/DBG/whoever "attempting to fix it." It had everything to do with HT having significant diminishing returns in DPS races due to increased mob HP.

Edit: If these mobs were still 32K (or probably even ~100K'ish) SKs would be just as prevalent as they were on Fippy in Kunark (when the HT wars truly started)

Aww, your dismissal of the truth is cute. Perhaps if you don't want something used or abused, you shouldn't be the catalyst in abusing it yourselves. At least then you'd be taken more seriously.

MM forms a raid of 40ish monks and 25ish sk's to down a 100% MR boss in a dps fight, then comes to the forums saying "Yeah, nerf sk's, we don't want to see an army of them".

Translation: Hey we abused something that we don't want anyone to abuse against us, nerf it quick.

Just like all those threads about neck bearded poop sockers and how anyone who does it is a loser, who deserves to not play EQ. Funny how that works, right?

What mob was zerged by SKs?

Just annoyed that guys from a single guild are all calling for nerfs on a class that doesn't need to be nerfed just because their competition is trying to stack them.

I think it is hilarious though because when I was on lockjaw I seem to remember Modest stacking a whole bunch of mages and Modest hired on some mage army in exchange for loot so they could stack them up even higher.

This is also a guild who's leader is an officer of Citizen who, if I remember right, started the whole SK stacking wars on Fippy.

These people are being such hypocrites and they are trying to feed the devs as much mis-information as they can so they can ruin the game even more.

The best fix I can think of off of the top of my head would be to cap number of a specific class in a raid.

or make a soft cap so that after say 10 SKs, the 11th SK's damage will not count towards the raids total damage done(for reward purposes). This way an imbalanced raid could still be formed and SK's 11, 12, and 13 etc could still contribute but their damage would not benefit a raid for the purpose of dps racing.

i dont know who bewts is, maybe hes a member of MM. but noone is calling for a nerf, in fact i said it hasnt been abused to the point it even needs to be considered.

and just to be clear,id hate to see a class get nerfed because of the idiocy going on in the raid scene on one server.

two guilds combined to get 25 SKs in a raid one time. thats a far cry from rolling up sk alts with the sole intention of HTing raid mobs down to secure the most damage.

and if im not mistaken, faceless wasnt that far behind on harm touches according to the parses. we havent come near having that many SKs in raid since at any rate.

Not really sure. As Talie mentioned, not sure if he's from any guild in particular or just trolling.

What is tiresome is the constant demands to change things. I just don't understand why it's so hard to just log in and play the game. People complain because DBG flip flops. You know why they flip flop? Cause they're trying to make everyone happy. This is impossible. So the more people come here and demand changes, the more this is going to happen.

Like I said, any class can technically be abused for certain things. People will find what the next best thing is. If you keep nerfing everything it just ruins the game. People that abuse or exploit things however should be dealt with and not the class.

All we do is point fingers. Any top end raiding guild is going to find an advantage to use. This has already been shown here with SK/Monk stacking, the Mage zergs, Wizard stacking and now the Wand spam clicking. Someone will always find an edge, it's a dog eat dog world out there right now.

Seriously, just play the game and stop posting demands every single day.

Well, SK HT is not supposed to stack. It is a bug with the debuff not blocking additional HTs the way it is supposed to.

There is a difference in people asking for a class to be nerfed, and asking for a past nerf to be fixed.

That said, it doesn't impact me much either way. Just my 2 cents.

Of course it doesn't impact you much. You haven't played for weeks It's funny that you mention it as an old nerf though. Yes it is an old nerf but it isn't relevant anymore with the mitigation of the mighty buff plus the extreme increase of HP of mobs. Remember when necro dots not stacking with each other used to be a thing we should go back to that!

I am not associated with any guild, thanks for putting me in MM though

Yeah, except that those 72 SKs just did 25% damage—a substantial number—but their damage after the initial HT wave is going to be sh*t. Their odds of beating a competing DPS raid with a mix of classes aren't great.

None, afaik. Not sure why this is suddenly a thing.

People seem to think that Harm Touch is some totally awesome, game-changing ability in raids, when in fact it's most useful as an aggro ability when trying to eat DTs. Yes, instant, unresistible 600 dmg is nice, but the rest of the SK's DPS is crap. Within the first few seconds of a fight, classic DPs classes will have already out-damaged them. If your SK raid can't instantly snag kill credit with their combined HTs, they're basically useless.

Tell me which 25 SKs of these are MM from the Noble fight we won. Hint: Faceless had more SKs there than Modest Man. There weren't even 25 harmtouches - there were 21 total.

[Sat Oct 17 22:36:07 2015] Choonk begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:08 2015] Shingami begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:12 2015] Kalgrath begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:14 2015] Snubz begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:15 2015] Vanilla begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:15 2015] Itank begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:20 2015] Dremor begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:23 2015] Dudeopus begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:31 2015] Itchyars begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:32 2015] Vengeance begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:39 2015] Darwin begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:44 2015] Sikix begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:44 2015] Turran begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:45 2015] Klesk begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:46 2015] Krinadon begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:47 2015] Judgedredd begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:48 2015] Hurrt begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:48 2015] Alfonso begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:48 2015] Excrutiator begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:49 2015] Metalogre begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
[Sat Oct 17 22:36:49 2015] Bloodynine begins to cast a spell. <Harm Touch X>
Your leaders further directed your guild to level SKs, even before the fight.
[Sat Oct 17 19:39:22 2015] Zaide tells the guild, 'Get a level 50 sk box by Wednesday'
You can try to skew your version as much as you want, these are simply cold hard facts. The only dismissal going on here is the true version of these events.
As to what would fix it, a 6-12 second recourse that blocks all other harmtouches would be sufficient.

Conflagration Wands don't grow on trees. It is a 50/50 drop from The Lord of Loathing mini in hate and also has a very rare chance to drop from a Loathing Lich - something like a 2% chance. You could sit in an instance of hate all day long and never see one. Given enough time, they could be used for a one hit wonder, but it is not exploitable as the SK HT is. HT doesn't need to be farmed.

Also, what is the resist adjustment on Conflagration? -10? What is the resist adjustment on HT? -200? Unresistable?

In a damage race, it's all about the DPS. SK HT is instant. If you have 72 Sks HTing a boss with 100k HP in a race situation, there is pretty much nothing that can be set up to combat this other than another raid with with SKs HTing. There may be a sweet spot where you add in a few wizards to the ratio, or a few monks if the boss is magic immune. Increased boss HP and the might damage reduction buff simply prevent instant kills, but in a DPS race situation, the effect is exactly the same.

SK HT is not consumed.

Prior to the launch of the Ragefire and Lockjaw the devs already stated they would not tolerate SK army's HTing targets.

I don't even know if this is true but, assuming it is, that was WELL before they added the mitigation of the mighty buff which nerfed the piss out of the harm touch.

Increased boss HP and the Mighty damage reduction buff are completely irrelevant in this situation as the end result is exactly the same in a race situation.

This isn't about nerfing SKs HT. I do not believe SK HTs should be touched in any way shape or form. This is about the exploitation of HTs by staking large numbers of SKs.

Even a 1 tic recourse would be enough to correct the problem.

The end result isn't the exact same. You do realize that before, they were killing 32k HP mobs before they even rendered in right? The result of having an abnormal amount of SKs doesn't have the same effect anymore.

How many SK would it take to down vox before she rendered in? Assuming 700 (this is a high assumption) HP per harm touch and vox at 150k HP, it would take 215 SK to down vox like they did back in Fippy with what. 20? 30sk?

You are asking for a nerf when you are thinking of some hypothetical situation where some guild creates over 200 SK accounts to have an equal result to what happened on Fippy.

A DPS race doesn't care about SK damage after the initial HT.

The point of the strategy would be to simply lower the pool of HP to race on.

This can provide raid setups specific advantages that magnifies those advantages:
1. Loading a second raid with nearly pure DPS classes becomes advantageous in comparison to a more balanced raid setup.
2. The better geared guild wins when it has access to more and better equipped players - even when outnumbered because the race is to X1% instead of 51%.

Its a numbers game - and when true comes into play where exclusive key access yields better weapons, you damn well better believe that this advantage will be exploited by cutting the required total damage to win by 10-15-20%.

This isn't true. The SKs are used as DPS not some weird lowering HP pool lowering situation you speak of. In shorter fights, SKs do shine because the burst from their HT is good but if the fight lasts over 30-45 seconds, their damage falls off the face of the earth.

I remember back in the day Faceless was pushing hard to get wizards. If they are still high in Wizards, you want the fight to last as long as possible (provided you haven't depleted your manapool) because the longer the fight lasts, the more you pull ahead. One of the big reasons for Wizards to want longer fights is because our spells are such high agro stealers that we have to wait about 15 seconds before we engage so we don't go pulling agro.

Vox should have 96k health (3 x 32k). Harm Touch does 600 at lvl 50, unresistable. 72 x 600 = 43200, or 45% of her health. Considering SKs also get a very high -resist. All a raid of SKs would need to do is run in, lifetap once, and then HT before a mob is below 51% health. That would guarantee that they win every dps race.

Edit: This would work on every raid boss in Classic. In Kunark, at lvl 60, the mobs have the same health and HT does even more dmg. Lifetap isnt even necessary anymore...in fact, you could even drop some of the SKs for clerics, for extra safety.