Many posts about "rampant boxing" Compile Solutions - Here.

This is not a omg ban all boxers rage post, do not allow it to devolve into that please.
This is not a post to complain about them.

I am sure on ragefire the same issue arises. Currently on Ragefire you have mage armies run by a few individuals that have the ability to "zero in" on trash mobs in the planes. Not only do they go after mage loot, but other class loot as well. In return they loot and destroy these items (assumed) if not sold. Using the auction global chan to sell these items at the cost of krono. Searching the internet as one can, you can find some of these "mage and enchanter" armies posted to Real Money Sites, along with the drop able loot from the planes of hate and fear and many krono along with plat. With the amount of people complaining about this on the forums, and DBGs willingness to enforce rotations will we see another rotation enforced for trash mobs? Will we see more GMs following these single player armies around? I do not know.

I propose not to ban anyone or have a ragefest over the situation. Perhaps roll the entire zone into the current rotation during a guilds "CT or INNY" They would have priority in the zone. open more FFA days allowing smaller guilds to "gear up" in the planes the old fashioned way.

I for one do not really want to pay anyone real money to loot any item, that I am already paying DBG real money for the right to do. It is your IP DBG, lets work on a solution to protect it.

I'm in plane of hate every day on Ragefire for hours. It's rare to see people auctioning items. A few known people do it, but most rot loot is called out free of charge round the clock. From crap items to bps.

Is it different on LJ? Cause its simply not how the plane of hate experience is on rf currently.

It wasn't till xfers... now Mabb or w/e his name is... is all over fear/hate and auctioning drops non stop... cleric bp for 25k last night, warrior wrist for 5k, ranger boots for 3k... on and on all night.

There's nothing wrong with auctioning drops. It took me about 250 kirakeui kills to get my warrior his breastplate.

These items are the best in the game right now, and why shouldn't you have to pay for them?

If you choose to give them away, that's on you... Sometimes I sell drops, sometimes I give them away... Either way, it's me playing the game the way I want to. You have no rights to tell me I can't.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. But please, stop complaining about it. Most people, including Mabbu will kill any mob they come across while focusing on a certain type. If you sent me a tell and asked what I was looking for last week it would have been kirakeuis, you offering to leave those mobs, in favor of others would have probably meant I should have given you anything I had rotting.

Stop assuming people are evil because they don't play like you.

Counterpoint: making people pay because you had it rough is just being a vindictive jerk.

For many people, "greedy" and "evil" are synonymous.

And finally, just because you can do something does not mean you should.

You can sell Golden Efreeti Boots... should you? Theres no difference between selling droppable loot and no drop loot.

Also nowhere in my post did i say i was CHARGING people because it took me forever to get my piece. You implied that.

If you choose, to walk down the street and hand a homeless guy 20 dollars, it doesnt make me a jerk because i dont do that. Nowhere does it say im required to GIVE anyone else charity. People that think other ACTUALLY destroy the item, instead of allowing someone to loot it are crazy. That doesnt happen. At most, that person probably gives it away free in guild. Just because you didnt get to loot it, doesnt mean it was destroyed.

This is going to be locked soon but here are some things for the OP to think about.

1. Most boxers I know were pretty happy with 6 or 12 toons - DBG increased the difficulty of mobs in hate so the boxers increased the number of mages they used... now 18 or 24... thus they need more staves and other gear from hate.... so they will be there longer

2. What brings prices down is competition - just like competition brought down idol prices on Lockjaw (rather than some kind of collusion), competition brings down prices on other things.
There are obviously not enough BPs/Robes being given away for free to affect sales - if you want everything to be free, take you and 150 buddies to PoH and camp it for 24/7 and give it all away for free in general rather than equipping it yourself or your alts.
If that is not a viable solution then you are screwed... because that is what people selling stuff are prepared to do... sell it rather than use it themselves.

3. You are not paying DBG anything for the right to loot something. You have to be present, kill stuff and have a random chance that something might drop. You have the same opportunity as every other paid account. If someone is boxing 24 toons they have 24x the rights you do.

And when they kill something they have the option of selling the loot rather than using it, just like guilds do... and don't tell me guilds didn't sell no-drop stuff or multi-quests back in the old days... in fact there was probably more of it back then as we sure did burn through tons of coffins, peridots etc.

Back in 1999, guilds with mostly one character per player did the planes. Selling loot then was a service to the many people who could not do the mobs, because they lacked the ability to kill the mobs. Now most everyone can kill the mobs but because they don't buy into the bring-more-accounts-for-KS-advantage system that Daybreak wants everyone to enjoy, it's the reverse - mage armies prevent others from killing the mobs so that they can sell the loot. I hope this is how Daybreak is remembered, as facilitating toxic gameplay for a buck. They earned it. Seriously, if they had a bit larger playerbase they could topple EA from the worst company list (actually I think EA didn't win that the last time, but they usually do).

I don't mind the actual selling as much as the unholy assistance he seems to have, which Daybreak has no interest in trying to catch people anymore.

And yes, there's also the KSing. While that in and of itself if allowed and probably should be, boxing so many accounts permits a player to not care what they do or who they trample as the need to maintain a good reputation (to be able to join groups and guilds) is completely removed by boxing. This is why the planes need to be instanced; because Daybreak has backed themselves into a corner by not keeping boxing in check from years ago. But I think they know that if they actually took the time to pursue even true cheaters, they would ban far more revenue than people would quit if they do nothing. It is an addictive game, after all these years.

Rotation for trash mobs? lol you gotta be kidding

This isnt 15 years ago when guilds rotated pohate. Its a group zone now... people can duo/trio there.

Well this escalated, albeit not as horrible as it could have. I simply wanted to brainstorm solutions for these circumstances not create a woe is me fest. So laugh at an idea Tuadadar instead of bringing an alternative to the table. Well done. With the amount of complaints I witness daily, I was hoping the community as a whole could assist each other in policing the matter, seems I may have been wrong.

Do we want to leave this up to daybreak to police, or can we come up with an alternative ourselves in order to keep the server active. With out "casuals" it will just be a bunch of us stroking our epeens.

Mabb is simply another trash bag recruited by MM further showing further that MM will do anything to try to be on top. He openly uses cheats and if you ever follow him around in hate, you will notice that the instant he shows up, he is running directly to spawn points magically without even having a tracker in the group (this means he isn't timing spawns like some have claimed to have done). It's quite amazing that these folks with no tracker can be so obvious and still not be banned. Mabb (formally Mabbu for those that didn't know he transferred) has already been suspended while on Ragefire and I really wish he would get investigated on Lockjaw and banned because his cheating is ridiculous.

I am against selling loot in Hate and Fear but I wouldn't mind seeing people give tips for the free drops. I don't like loot sales because than people just pull everything they can instead of just pulling targeted mobs that they need.

So how about you make a better idea other then blocking the majority of a server so several guilds can hog the highend group zones? Do you think you are owed the best zones because you joined a raiding guild that has 100 people?

If something is rotting, i first let my guild know about it before anyone else. Most people do this. How do you even know people are deleting items to stop other people from getting it?

You CAN hang around the planes and get fully geared provided you are not a mage. I've done it with a cleric, shaman and bard. I was just semi afk and would check every 30 mins or so. It took me a few days of being afk there. Even some desirable pieces like a mage robe i have gotten as a rot, or a cleric bp. Now it was given to me freely and they did not have to do anything but I would surely pay for it if I have to.

Guess what, if several people want an item (which is usually the case) i am willing to pay for it for that item to be held for me, instead of having to worry about getting a port up there and not being able to loot it. That is perfectly legitimate. No one is entitled to someone else's loot. Truth be told, yes i can kill it but maybe i dont want to spend however long it takes to get that certain piece.

Just instance the planes. It is already silly that people can kill maestro, minis, and golems as soon as they pop everyday, not to mention armor is dropping like candy. These items/kills are supposed to be end game right now not stuff casually killed daily by a singler person boxing.

Give them a lockout on an instance version of the planes and you will end this silly 15 person box team. You will then allow guilds who raid opportunities to kill all the raid targets and not have to rely on only rotation mobs

Easily. You see, when a known lootseller kills a mob, it's a fair assumption that since they have not even announced the sale of the loot yet, the person who is going to loot the mob is not in their group at the moment they kill it. And with advanced looting, if you were not in the group at the moment the mob was killed, you have to go to the mob to unlock it to you. (If they aren't using advanced looting, then everyone, including group members, must go to the mob corpse to loot).

Thus, if you see a lootseller kill a mob, then announce the sale in auction, then when the unlock timer reaches the point at which it unlocks to everyone and no one has even approached the mob's corpse, yet it disappears, what conclusion would you reach?

Technically, he might have looted it to stick in his bank, rather than deleted it, as when Planes of Power comes you can turn those in for gems in PoK. But functionally, that's the same result as a deletion, and someone probably fills their bank up fast enough they're deleting soon anyway. Especially with rogue gear.

I don't know which is worse at this point....

• people who box beyond 2 or 3 players as if that isn't easy enough....
• people who try to sell no-drop items like it's their day job
• people who box 12+ guys in a game that has zero challenge left.

Easy fix, wait for the no-boxing server and hope they can actually stop boxing completely for one server. Less power vacuums for single players, and we'll have to actually play with other humans to accomplish most things again.

Strange concept these days, but it's possible.

There's nothing wrong with auctioning drops. It took me about 250 kirakeui kills to get my warrior his breastplate.

These items are the best in the game right now, and why shouldn't you have to pay for them?

If you choose to give them away, that's on you... Sometimes I sell drops, sometimes I give them away... Either way, it's me playing the game the way I want to. You have no rights to tell me I can't.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. But please, stop complaining about it. Most people, including Mabbu will kill any mob they come across while focusing on a certain type. If you sent me a tell and asked what I was looking for last week it would have been kirakeuis, you offering to leave those mobs, in favor of others would have probably meant I should have given you anything I had rotting.

Stop assuming people are evil because they don't play like you.
^^ people like this are ruining the game.

Its because POS that perma camp zone with 3rd party programing in violation of terms of service that block players that comply with the rules from getting the items they are working for.
They are a cancer to the game and should never be funded or supported for their bad behavior.
Takes a pretty pathetic human being to decrease the enjoyment of the game for hundreds of people just to try and make a RW buck.

How about we go with the simple solution that was put in place day 1 of the game.
Enforce what is already there and ban all cheating 3rd party playing people.
They are a disease on the game and generally hated by everyone who is not a botter.

Mage boxers screw up the game for everyone, the only people that refuse to admit it are DBG and the idiots who play them. They exist for the sole purpose of locking down content, either for RMT or to prevent others from enjoying it. Such is the game we have now thanks to DBG, we just have to live with it.