If DBG doesn't suspend <CAF>...

I'm waiting to see if the GM's actually enforce this rotation, it was only a matter of time till someone broke it.
There are only 2 ways this plays out.

1) CAF gets suspended
or
2) The rotation gets thrown out the window

oh, like guilds got suspended by not following the old rotation rules you mean?

Doesn't matter. You can't kill a mob that is assigned to a guild for three hours until the three hours is up. It's that simple.

CAF is a guild full of mage bots being ran by a guy with a scumbag attitude. I wouldn't expect anything less. They shouldn't even be allowed in the rotation. Remember the thread? CAF is NOT a raiding guild. I would say more of an RMT guild. I know that gets slung around alot... But take a look at CAF and decide for yourself.

/suspension - Those were the rules put forth by Roshen. If he doesn't follow through then he'll basically put out a bad image/message and people will not worry about any repercussions for that they do.

It was posted in OOC that Vox wasn't FFA, and several tells were sent warning the leadership of CAF. Ignorance of the existence of a system does not mean that such a system does not exist. Since it can neither be proven or disproven that they have previous knowledge of the rotational rules, then you must assume that the rotation rules simply exist or do not exist and enforce them regardless of prior knowledge. You cannot simply give a mob to another guild, that was made clear quite early on, you must wait for the window to close and then engage in a dps race with whomever is challenging you. Engaging prior to the window closing was stated as the offense punishable by the seven day ban. CT was engaged nine minutes prior to the window closing by TLG, though the guild mass quit out with the mob near death to leave plausible deniability, and Vox was killed a full 13 minutes prior to the FFA window closing. Whether you are wrong by a meter or you are wrong by a mile, the simple fact is that you are wrong. Without constant policing on the part of DBG, these problems will continue to pop up. This isn't the first time that Toxn decided to do the wrong thing on CT, but as long as he denies prior knowledge each time he cruises right along. The same can now be said for Saytonic, who can see that megaboxers like himself and Toxn are as likely to be punished as a CEO after a bailout. The precedent would seem to be that some accounts are too big to fail.

I am CAF leadership and received no tells from anyone, Which wouldn't matter we were within the rules. It sounds like there are personal issue with specifics members with the guild so you are trying to Rally a lynch mob. Please don't allow your personal issues and emotions run wild on these forums.

I don't raid but I follow the forums and server news.

I have to agree here.. Rules are Rules

Punish the offenders to the extent you promised in the beginning or none of this has any meaning.

How can you read the tells on 6+ toons at once. Would be hard while engaging a raid mob. The OOC is in the logs, as the tells will be. The /time and the serverwide are also there. It doesn't take a great deal of emotion to prove that something against the rules occurred, simply check the logs. All of the petitions will show that you had ample opportunity to stop killing Vox. Doing the wrong thing, and then trying to deflect really doesn't help your case.

Ok guys, there are some important things to point out here:

1. This has nothing to do with the new rotation, as it doesn't actually start until 9PM EST tonight.
2. Under the old rotation rules, it was FP's turn to kill the mob. They do not have the right to "Pass" it off to anybody if they've attempted and failed. It should have remained up for 3 hours, then gone FFA. Correct procedure would have been to wait until the 3 hour time period is up, and then engage (Allowing any other guilds present to engage as well.)
3. The rules on the old rotation are very vague, and do not outline this situation very well. FP and CAF are also new to the rotations, so they may not have been aware of how to correctly handle it (However this is not really an excuse, because any guild participating in the rotation needs to be aware of ALL rules.)
4. Public forums is not where I would like to see these types of items posted in the future, however, I cannot fault the OP for doing it in this case, since the Council has not yet designated a procedure for reporting violations. I would like to see a specific section of ragefireforums in the locked leadership section as a means of posting violations, but we will discuss exact process at the next meeting.
5. Just to repeat myself, all guilds are expected to understand all rules when the new rotation goes into effect tonight. If anything is unclear, please PM me or Jain for clarification. There can be no grey areas in these types of situations. As a guild participating in a rotation, you are expected to understand them.

-Thalanos

Your guild leader (Saytonic) was messaged on several occasions.

OOC is visible by anyone in zone.

A "we didn't get any messages" excuse isn't going to fly here.

Prove that a rotation is more than just handcuffs for TL. Follow through with earlier threats to suspend violators, or I see no reason anyone should be beholden to any rotation.

CAF had been waiting for Vox to spawn for over an hour, they went to permafrost after their Naggy kill. They were waiting because the rules stated they had to wait. Once they saw TL start to zone in, they decided to pull it early, clearly violating the rules.

This to me shows 2 points:
- They knew the rules and were waiting, so they therefore knew they were breaking the rules
- It is very unlikely that anyone from FP sent CAF (and only CAF?) a tell saying the mob was open. Otherwise, CAF would have pulled Vox earlier rather than wait.

I don't know about the punishment. We have a new rotation coming into effect today at 9pm EST. I think the devs should issue some sort of punishment to show that they are actually taking this seriously, as they have stated.

Even if no punishment is given though, the new rotation has a council. You could always bring it up to the council and decide if you want to punish CAF yourself. You could always remove them from the rotation for a week yourselves if you feel they have breached the agreement.

So if it was FP's turn to kill a gatekeeper mob, and they couldn't/wouldn't kill it...why does it matter if CAF came in and killed it? Especially with FP's permission.

My interpretation of the rules is the area is in fact very grey. That's like sitting 3 hours at a red light, when you are trying to make a right turn and there's no traffic, just waiting for it to turn green. The law allows you to make that right turn, given you looked both ways and aren't impeding someone.

Come on people, use some common sense here. CAF did nothing wrong. If anything, amend or add a little more clarity on these rules. I mean the whole half brain idea was concocted by force and is only 2 weeks old to begin with, god forbid it can be adjusted and adapted without burning someone at the stake.

Personally, I think the whole rotation is stupid, and everything should be FFA, but whatever. Based on this, I think CAF should now be placed in a rotation, whether or not it was their turn at a gatekeeper, or an FFA period, they still killed it.

I don't understand how the council can control the rotation without GM intervention.
All they would be able to do is force poopsocks.

From what I gather the council can vote on changes. If they bring the change to remove CAF from the rotation for a week, and the vote passes, then I see no reason why it would need GM intervention to carry out.

The rotation will change constantly as the server progresses through expansions, thats the point of a voting system. GMs shouldn't need to step in for every minor change.

Interesting

Except nothing is stopping them from showing up and contesting every single spawn if they are pulled from the rotation (without GM intervention)
In fact, it would be ideal to be removed from the rotation if it's not GM enforced, you can contest every spawn.

This has been explained.

Mobs don't transition to FFA until after three hours to preserve fairness in the rotation. If ROE gave Apokalypsis a raid boss every time they couldn't field a raid, essentially giving Apokalypsis extra/free loot, that wouldn't be fair. This is no different.

Well that's an entirely separate conversation and I suppose we'll get an answer here, as this is the first time anyone has tested breaking the rotation. We'll get to see how the GMs respond.

Good example, everyone would be painting Apok and RoE as evil schemers. CAF shouldnt get a free pass.