<Reign of Eternity> Questions

Again then, if that is the case, then why aren't other guilds included in this initial rotation discussion? Apok and Rosenguard have both killed raid mobs that exist on the rotation list. They're more than capable of raiding this content, and they've both proved it. RoE has not proved it. RoE has as much right to claim a spot in this rotation as False Prophecy, Remnants of Prexus and Ceaseless (and others I'm sure). So then why do the latter guilds have to earn their way in, but RoE does not?

RoE has not killed a single target in the mob rotation list, let alone the gatekeeper. So why the double standard here?

So then shouldn't the only current rotation guild be TL ? Why do Apok, Rose, and RoE get to jump the line ? Has Apok killed Naggy ? Has Rose ? Has RoE ? If they haven't why do they get to automatically be in the rotation ? Just because they dictated discussion ?

Because this isn't about fairness at all. RoE wants to skip ahead of all the other guilds they claim they are representing. By having Breeze scream about this on the forums they've managed to skip ahead of False Prophecy and Ceaseless even though they've not proven themselves more so than those guilds.

Because TL is the reason we need a rotation? Again, these seems very basic. One guild's behavior was locking everyone else out of classic raid content. This enforced rotation is an attempt to remedy that. It would make no sense to have a rotation with just TL... that is the status quo the server is attempting to get away from.

I'm very patient and don't mind explaining this as many times as it takes, but I suspect you already understand what I am telling you.

I agree with you one hundred percent. A rotation with TL alone would be completely ridiculous. That's why I stated before that Apok and Rosenguard have both earned their way into this rotation (in my eyes). They've contested against us in DPS races, they've beat us in mobilization races, and they've gotten kills on bosses that exist on this list.

The rotation should either start with these three guilds only -or- with guilds like FP, RoP, Ceaseless, CaF (if they so desire), as well as RoE. But why, again, does RoE get to skip the line of all of these other guilds and not conform with the rules they're creating?

I'm a bit tired, and had to take a deep gulp of air before I started writing this in the hopes I don't come off too acerbic:

It's hard to take concerns over RoE seriously when the pace is being set by DBG. They're the ones that know why they do what they do.

So, I would rather base my opinions of RoE on the things they actually do rather than the circumstances they find themselves in. Going further than that for now borders on the paranoid, however justified it may seem.

Talk to them. There's no reason to continue the witch hunt farces.

I'm not witch hunting them. I'm directly asking them to remove themselves from the rotation and show that they can be impartial and fair if they're going to be one of the guilds that makes the rules for this rotation. Is it unfair of me to want the people in charge of something to follow their own rules? Or to ask for transparency? I'd love for a member of RoE to justify or explain to me why they feel like they deserve an immediate spot in the rotation, but a guild like False Prophecy does not.

You still havent explained why they get to skip...just on good faith ? "We totally had it if not for TL beating us to it" is an argument every guild can make, some more legitimately than others. You're taking half the "raiding" guilds and excluding them from something they didn't agree to and its not based on merit at all.

What proof is there that RoE is any stronger or more competant than CZ, Ceaseless, FP, CAF or other guilds who have been treading water in the planes killing minis and trying to get a chance at those big 4 ?

Hell the best kill I saw from RoE was a revamped hate mini that they took after I think it was CZ wiped and killed it from 52% hp.

I think the reason that they are in this rotation is that they were able to buddy up to another guild, a raiding guild, and used there 'voice' in tandem with another guild who has actually done something to get this rotation. Even though the other two raiding guilds disagree with this.

Presumably they're in on the rotation because they were part of the 4 guilds that were in the discussions. I'm sorry you seem to have your mind made up that you no answer will satisfy you.

Let's make something perfectly clear. Yes, TL was monopolizing raid content. However, we were not doing it by any nefarious means. We were simply playing the game better than anyone else. If we had been cheating or using unscrupulous tactics to accomplish that goal, then forcing us aside would have been justified. The only behavior we needed to lock down raid content was excellent play. So please stop framing this argument as though we were doing something wrong. The only thing that is happening here is that no one had the ability to compete with us and so the field is being skewed against us, even though the only advantage we had was the fact that our roster was comprised of the most skilled players.

Other guilds could have competed with us by recruiting to bolster their rosters, refining their tactics so that they didn't wipe and allow us to take a mob out before they could recover, or learning more about the encounters on a live server. Through this system, we lose the advantage our superior skill provides. It doesn't raise others up. It makes everyone mediocre.

No one outside of Apok wants or wanted them in the discussion. They haven't proven anything outside that they can buddy up really well. At least there was one proposal that was out in the open clearly and not done via back door channels where spreadsheets can be changed and modified without any real moderation.

Were the guild leaders of other guilds not included in this rotation invited to this discussion?

I'm sorry, but I really take issue with the fact that everyone blasts TL constantly for not being fair. One of the main issues with Skyp's proposal that he put forth was that it "wasn't fair." But here I am (and others as well) pointing out a glaring discrepancy, and an excellent example of something not being "fair" and yet, it's no big deal? How is RoE being included in this rotation fair to False Prophecy? To Remnants of Prexus? Ceaseless? Canadian Armed Forces? Anyone else?

Are TL the only people that are capable of being "unfair?"

Either these other guilds get added to the rotation, or RoE removes themselves, claims the first Naggy FFA gatekeeper spawn and earns their way in. That is the very definition of fair.

It wouldn't even make sense for RoE to get the first crack, they haven't proven anything more than what other guilds have.

Its a terrible shame too, RoE seemed like a stand-up guild, hate to see their reputation hurt like this.

@Rokuthy, I don't know if other guilds were invited, ask your guildleader Skyp.

@MightLou I feel like I am framing TLs behavior as neutrally as I possibly can. Yes you can say it as many times as you want, you're the best at Everquest, everyone else is worse, etc. The enforced rotation is a direct consequence of TL's behavior though, that is fact.

Nobody's reputation is hurt. You and the rest of your guild obviously has an incredible amount of disdain for the rest of server already. Today, tomorrow, and the duration of the rotation in its current form won't change that.

A rotation was intended to bring some kind of balance to competitive guilds, when your giving handouts to people who aren't competitive that changes things.

We had a chance for impartiality, but dbg likely thinks of us as children who are too slow to learn why biting others is a bad idea and are now treating us as such.

People can be as suspicious and paranoid as they want, they certainly were with TL. Didn't do them much good though, did it?

How was TL's behavior bad? We beat people to boss mobs. We were better than the other guilds. You make it sound like we all warped to a mob and DT'd it over and over. Our players were faster, our players were better, we had better tactics and we executed. We didn't keep people from killing anything. We were just better so we got the kill.

What constitute bad and good in this case are matters of opinion. That much at least should be obvious by now.