Accusations, Merits, Reputation

First off, I am a member of RoE before people assume I am either TL or Apok.

Apok - I would like to suggest, cleaning house may not be in your benefits - keep reading and hopefully I can shed some light as to why.

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So that Apok thread was rather interesting and I need to defend them. I have had only 1 bad interaction with Apok and that was recently (last week) when I was PLing my alt in Unrest with few other random players. Homeboy poopsocked the mob that I pulled and claimed I pulled from his camp. Dude was a disrespectful and I just called him out on his toxicness and moved on.

Outside of that - RoE/Apok has had a rather interesting interactions in PoS. We were quite shock on how they wanted to behave and play nice and share. Unfortunately we messed up and Apok steamrolled us and honestly I can't blame them. We were outnumbered to begin with and they were nice enough to allow us to loot rots and keys many of our other guildies. In the end, that day - our guild left PoS in respect and acknowledgement that we up and pissed them off and we don't want the drama or hatred to spill over when we bump heads in Hate/Fear.

I decided to stick around though since I am fairly new to PoS and not keyed to island 8 yet. Maybe 10 mins after RoE left, Apok extended an offer to me and another guildie to join their raid and we did. We never discussed what happened or anything guild related nor did they tried to recruit me. I was allowed to roll on items fairly with their own guildies and won several quest item loots. They were all friendly in raid. I knew Apok and knew/heard the reputation they had but it was different, being in the raid with them. So, if this Reputation that APOK has, thateveryone here claims... than I will give them the benefit of the doubt about their "cleaning house".
This was also the day I witness a handful of Apok members disappearing - the Ban wave happened during the raid - I stay quiet - they were voicing their opinions and frustrations about it and put their tinfoil hat.

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Dear Apok - if you have earned this reputation of being dbags in the raid scene - honestly continue to do so.

Here is the reality of Hate, Fear, Sky for everyone - it's ugly. As a member of RoE - I do not recall Apok messing with us in hate - they fked us over in Fear IIRC. Than again they fk with everyone and gives TL a run for their money. That initiatives and cutthroat is needed. PNP isn't working, plain and simple.

TL has been the biggest dbags in the raid scene, and they are #1. End of story.
Outside of the raid scene - I have never had any bad interaction with TL.
They have been friendly, helped me a few times, gave me a ride up to hate and back to CL before as well. But when it's time to fight for those pulls - yeah - they have been total jerks andd honestly I can't blame them. RoE tries their best not to use those tactics.

I have seen Chaos Zeal, Apok, TL, RoI, Mana Burn, Ceaseless, and several other small guilds going all out on the KSing, charm stealing stunts. Some to us and yes, us to some of them in revenge. We won't allow to get bullied either and will muscle our way if needs be. We tried not to but will do so in the raid scene.

Another fact for all those deniers - as someone in TL pointed out in a forum - every guild cheats and uses some form of 3rd party program to get an edge. I am pretty sure my guild does too - as to who, I do not know. And this goes for every single top raiding guild. It's an ugly truth. Apok got caught but let's not pretend your guild is squeeky clean.

Overall Apok - don't clean house - you will lose your raiding power imho.
You need that tenacity and you guys are really the only one giving TL a competition. RoE imho is falling a bit behind now along with the others guilds. I havent heard much from Rosen.

Your reputation really wouldnt change, as long as your the top dog or #2 - you will continue to have haters and accusations lob at you. So take any advantages - by removing them, you are increasing the raiding strength of TL or another guild who will pick them up. Plain and simple.

Lastly - the real Dbags are is that bot army guild - I got no proof but let's not BS ourself - bots only, not boxers. I am cool with boxers but Canadian Airforce.... in and out of the raid scene they are jerks, along with Inquitibious or whatever they are called. Both of those 2 guilds I have had multiple horrible interactions outside of the raid scene. Everyone else seems to be civil.

So TL;DR every guild has bad apples and a cheater or two or using that 3rd party program to be relavant in the raiding scene. Rep means nothing nowadays, moreso with the lack of PnP enforcement and it's a Dog eat dog world in EQ. I think everyone benefits with Apok keeping their attitude and players the same and continue to be a pain in TL sides. I don't want to see 1 guild being untouchable, cause eventually, you will hold that guild down long enough for everyone else to catch up.

Here the issue, everyone knows the Raid Scene can, at times, be Toxic. Thats what you sign up for if you want to progressively raid during classic. Whether you like it or not.

I think the problem MOST people have with Apok, is that they poop all over smaller groups, people that arent affiliated with raiding guilds, and people that they just overpower. Thats how you get the repuation that most people consider them having.

Are you going to have both good and bad interactions with every guild? Yes.

But when the bad outweigh the good on a day to day basis, thats how you become known as a .

Also CAF is not a bot army guild. Theres 1 person that boxes 18 or so. And theres about 4-5 that box 6. Plus a few that box less. I would say thats consistent with most guilds.

That's all of us. Rosen, RoI, Ubi, TL, Apok, Ceaseless, Chaos Zeal, False Prophecy. The problem is, when they lose the battles. None of us likes to get steamrolled. We have on others, cause thats the nature of the game. We hate it when TL/Apok can do it to use.

HATE is different though - atleast in Fear/Sky - I think we all take as much discretion n respect as possible. Lack of communications or previous interactions causes all out war. We know TL wont play nice, so why bother. Apok - now we are in talking terms. False Prophecy afaik has been respectful, etc etc.
each guild is gonna have different faction with other guilds. So everyone who probably has issues with Apok may not have bother to talk to their raid leaders and asked to be civil or asked why they are doing certain things intentionally. Maybe the felt you did something wrong first, if both guilds dont open a dialog, expect result. I do recall, once upon a time, TL was trying to be civil in HATE. I think it was only, TL, False Prohecy, RoE and Ceaseless. It went smooth until TL decided to mess with us. Than they began to steal everyone's pull. Everyone repositioned themselves and if you were caught trying to pull a mob at a enemy guild terriority, they will steal it. RoE had a bad spot and it was funny having to kite my pulls carefully to my guild away from ceaseless. I think False prohecy and us had a mutual silent respect for ours pulls, while things began to get ugly. We do not know who pissed TL off or what caused them to just say it and ruin a peaceful, coordinated hate event that one day.
Moral of the story - iirc, it got posted here on the forums - they tried to be nice and kept having their pulls stolen and didnt know by whom. They assumed us, since we were the only other big guild with the numbers to bully around, maybe we did, maybe we didnt. I do not know, I do know, we were mad they were tkaing some of ours and it just escalated. I dont think we tried to talk to TL about it and simply said, dps race bruh and lost and moved to a camp spot.

really? You think that is the norm? You have an odd view of things.

thought it was 1 guy boxing 30, or 50? I also heard from the rumor mill - it is an offshoot TL guild of boxers. Wether it's true or not, idk. regardless - CAF - fk CAF! and people need to stop buying from them! Stop buying Geb and all other items that are for Kronos only.

CAF is a RMT guild only. Stop supporting sellers who wants kronos only. That is mostly a CAF RMTer. If it's a SMR or dragon loot/Nagafen lair loot - PoS loot - that's CAF.

CAF Is most decidedly not an offshoot of TL. The closest they have in relation to us is that we denied 2? of them membership into TL.

Sorry, I should have been specific in my quote. I was referring to your sentence about that being consistent with most guilds.

wrong person

I always find it funny when an RoE posts about being even remotely respectable. I've spent a great deal of time in Hate and Fear, before and after the spawn time changes, and there's only a few people who have made my "list". And I assure you, your guild leader is #1 on it for all the charming and all around dbaggery over and over again. And no, I'm not in a "raiding" guild, and I don't see the point in bullying a group of SIX people, but he apparently does. Can't wait to see him in an exp zone in kunark, going to be fun

lol sam deathwalker didn't box 50 in eq....

I know at one point he was up to 36 boxes for sure, in EQ

Closing this up! If you honestly need an explanation, please feel free to PM me!