Lets talk about need vs. greed and /advloot

In the long long ago, back before everything was no drop, I remember disputes about need vs. greed. I was always of the opinion that need before greed was only ever for the greedy, while at the same time being totally OK with someone I knew wasn't going to insta-bail going ahead and looting a useful item first.

As an example, say you're camping the fbss. Nobody in the group has an fbss. One drops. Of course the warrior and the monk both need it, but it's also why the chanter and the mage were here. I don't think the warrior and the monk should get priority, but at the same time if I know them I'd defer to them.

So I don't think it's a right, and I don't think they should feel entitled. And same same for something like the SMR.

Which brings me to the advloot tool. Could we all agree, to some extent, that:
Need - I will use this item for something other than selling to a vendor. I intend to use it in a combine, sell it to a player, or wrap it around mah seksi self.
Greed - I will sell this to a vendor for $$

And could someone smarter than me come up with a shorthand way to describe this philosophy. I only bring it up because I don't want to have two sets of filters for two different types of loot.

The alternative would be to use need only for gear you would equip, and greed for everything else, but I'd also want to need all tradeskill supplies, which I know would get me hollered at.

Obviously not as much an issue if you don't like /advloot, but if I'm starting the group I'm using it, because America.

just need the things you want and don't need the things you dont want.

Think of it more as want vs don't want, Use need for want and Pass for don't want, if you use Greed you will just always lose to those who use Need, it's an outdated thought of system that the newer or bigger MMO's replaced.

if i make a group, i tell everyone up front its need before greed, so they know going in,

i dont make groups to fund your alt, or so you can sell an item someone in the group would wear.

if i join a group, i ask. im usually ok with whatever they have set up, wether its FFA or need before greed.

melee characters are so much more gear dependent than casters, especially in early eq. i say that, because its almost always the melee items that cause drama~

I don't find it to be an outdated school of thought. My decisions might differ depending on who is in group from time to time, but if someone legitimately needs an item and I am just going to sell it or alt it, I don't necessarily think it is a bad thing that I miss out so they can have it or that I can have it if I need it and they miss out. Just need to make sure expectations are clear going in and not deciding this stuff on the fly.
I would especially find this true if I was looking for an epic drop and someone in the group just wanted to loot it and sell rights. Again, different story if we agreed to that, of course.

Having options for need and greed is an unneeded complexity in today's EQ.

Need vs greed is the most uninformed argument by people who have no concept of economics and every time they argue about it, they display that lack of understanding.

Excluding no-drop items.

If a tradeable/sellable item drops, say a sword. Should the wizard have a right to roll on it against the warrior?

Absolutely, because the sword is only worth its material wealth value (say its $2K. Someday the warrior may sell it and buy something else, or even trade it for another sword. The wizard can sell it and buy a staff they can use for $1K.

I agree. Every item has a certain value that can be used by any class. Also, there are many areas in the game where there are only items dropped for certain classes.. should the classes who don't directly benefit from those items leave empty handed?

However, I have had situations where a lucky individual won 2 good items when everyone else got much less because they happened to get lucky with random rolling.. that I am not a big fan of.

I think the way you describe it is fine. Need, something you can or will use soon. Greed something you will sell for plat.

Hmmm

I have always gone by the need before greed principle, and need is defined by whether it is an upgrade that will be used, and not just need for the money, which is just greed.

What I noticed down the years playing EQ, was that casters always wanted to need on high value melee items, so they can sell them on, but always got vocal if melee returned the favour and went need on high value caster items.

Except he also defined need as selling for plat to another player.

Which doesn't find "Need" under my definition - pull need on something worth a damn in my groups because "you need to sell it", you're not getting future invites to my groups.

If it's for an alt, maybe I'd let it slide - but just absolutely to sell - no way.

Yeah in the old days (when folks bickered less LOL and were more mature in their dealings even at a much younger age)

Need = you yourself would wear/use it
Greed = it was for an alt, you couldn't wear it and/or just wanted to sell it.

Spells (when those came in as drops) were 'are you of level to use-if yes, grats', if not but were close-grats, otherwise /random'd among the group.

Epic stuff - it was whoever the group was for (not 2 people trying for it).

Not sure when courtesy, respect and betterment of all went out the window but between original EQ and the reliving original EQ via the multiple sets of progression type servers it changed.

I think around the time when people realized there are lots of areas that will drop nothing for them. I don't see how something of value shouldn't be rolled on because of class. Every class can use the money.

Exactly. Originally, it wasn't about "what's in it for me" like it is now.

Blah blah blah, all your SSB are belong to me!

I first ran into this when playing on P99 and it kind of blew me away because I never experienced that mentality while playing EQ for years, at least not on Bertoxx. Now reading some of these posts it seems that maybe I was just lucky. I prefer Crystilla's method though and thats how my groups will be ran.

I guess what it shows is to make sure you get clarity upon forming/joining the group otherwise given the varying opinions here there are going to be disagreements

Hmmm

The area will provide exp and cash loot from the normal drops from the mobs. There have been plenty of times that I have joined groups purely for the exp. I played a monk on Fippy, due to weight limits, I rarely looted anything.

I am sure that the casters that think needing on melee items is acceptable will be equally ok when melees need on all the rare spells that drop in Kunark and later expansions...My experience is that is not the case...

There is not a shorter handed way of saying NbG or nbeed before greed. It doesn't really need any further explanation unless someone is being a .