Hi all. My raid leaders have recently become interested in our chanters casting runes to help the tanks out against bosses. This has resulted in many many tragic chanter deaths. Runes seem to get aggro way more than our nukes. Does spell casting subtlety not apply to runes because they are neither damage nor actual healing?
Runes generate a GINORMOUS amount of agro. 20% less than ginormous is approximately enormous. Increase tanks agro vs your own management, which there are many ways to do both, don't know what you have and have not tried. Mugs
As a chanter in a raid you have to watch your agro and communicate with the tank to up his or fade yours to not pull agro. I have a feeling that SCS does not work, or if it does, it is so small or the rune agro is so great, that it really isn't seen, as in 20% of 80k agro is only 8k agro reduction, its something, but not that much. We recently had a guest enchanter on our raids that is constantly pulling agro because he does not communicate or watch his agro. he is also Awesome dps and that combined with his runes make agro an interesting situation. As a long time raider with my guild and a tank I know how much I have to put out to keep it off my best DPS'ers. With him I have seen him jump up and grab it and I have to use tricks to get it back, but once I have it, I can usually keep it off him, unless he chains his self runes. Another thing to try is if you have a pally, have them throw Marrs on you, this will help a lot too.
Use the deaggro rune, any tank that can't power through the deaggro proc isn't worth casting a rune on. Edit: reason being is when you cast it, it has a hate override that is set very low.
Which rune is that raven, I'm not seeing any obvious ones that say that, but I don't know many of the enchanters runes or AA runes and their secondary abilities. edit: if its Darkened rune that thing costs 3k+ mana a cast, would burn the chanter out pretty fast I would think.
I am also in the OP guild. The problem isn't that the existing tank doesn't have sufficient agro to keep it off the chanter (at least not for all of the tanks... if it is a specific person(s) I need to find out lol), the issue is when the tank dies a sudden unexpected death, that the chanter is next in line and the back up tank is either not being fast enough or dying too quick. If I remember correctly, runes by default are 2x the agro of the value of the rune. So an 80k rune is like 160k base agro. Even at 50% subtlety it is still 80k agro.
I would suggest your tanks make a hot key then when second in line: /disc Unflinching Attention /disc Fortitude Discipline That gives them agro for 18 seconds and 15 seconds of invulnerability to melee to have the clerics swap to them. They can also make a second key with flash for when fort is down and maybe even warlords grasp + ageless in case unflinching is down too, that should help alleviate the issue, unless the tanks are just slow, which my guild has a few of those too. and about the agro, yeah chanter rune agro is the worst agro in the game I think, and something needs to be done about it.
Runes generate the same hate as a heal without SCS - at least that's what it used to be (either way, yeah, they're a ton of aggro; I find myself fading a lot if I have to Unity rune myself constantly). Sure, it's 3k but it has the advantage of hitting all your tanks (I'm guessing there are multiple warriors/clerics in the tank groups for their raids). The hate override is worth it though if you're having problems already. Otherwise, some better aggro management strategies need to be implemented; Silent Casting, Arcane Whisper, Glamorous Visage, and two fades. If you're still next in line that probably means all your tanks are dead anyway so wipe it up. Also, use more Threshold runes. They don't generate nearly as much aggro as Lucem. My favorite "oops" moment with a rune was a while back when we were doing Arx3. I landed a Rune on the MT right as Nomia died and respawned as her undead version... she steamrolled the tank and ran right to me, dumping her in the middle of the raid.
While there are some useful scenarios of ench being able to snap aggro, unless it's a particular ae/cc heavy fight, spamming unity rune for aggro to me is right up there with taunt mashing. More often than not it's just creating needless aggro pong - as much the fault of the individual player as anyone else. As a trash tank if I see someone doing that, will usually let them die before trying to take it off. If they're legitimately having trouble controlling their aggro that's one thing, but most of the time that isn't the case, imo. (Hello, Med!)
Let's all pop Negation of Sub, Frightening Rune, Twincast, chain Unity, and drop big nukes while Sheex is tanking
Not everyone has AA to blow on lost secrets, and the other allows 1 more cast of the rune per minute. As silv stated there are ways of allowing chanters to drop/reduce agro, and the chanters are the ones that need to learn that part. If I and head and shoulders above the rest of the raid and a chanter wants to pull agro by not playing smart, I am with sheex, I'll let em die, ha the mob back and go back to what I was doing.
This is 100% a tanking problem, not an enchantering problem even remotely. That your enchanter is the victim of an unskilled tank line is ... unfortunate? Not exactly a coincidence, since runing is the highest agro support/dps activity, but it's very much like healers getting run over by crawlies in the Lucia event. They're the primary victims, but if they die it's 100% enc/brd fault, not theirs. If your enchanters are dying like you describe, it's 100% the fault of the tank line. All that hate the MT builds up should not be lost when he dies, and not losing it is up to the next tank. Warriors as they tank can build up an enormous hate lead, just huge, given 30s or 1m of tanking. The next tank(s) in line should be using their Taunt skill (not the plethora of +hate abilities, talking the actual skill:Taunt) to ride at 85%+ of the MT's hate. Like this: Taunt skill (tanks have it for real, rangers have it with lower skill cap), when it works, sets the character to the same hate as whoever's highest hate on the mob (who should have agro/be tanking, but pets can with that. separate issue.). That's not a nebulous or subjective thing, though. They're numerically set to whatever the highest agro number is. If it's seventyelevenbillion when the skill fires, that's the agro they have. If it's the Taunter's desire to actually be tanking, they'd have to then use that as their new baseline and fire off some +hate abilities to stay on top. If the Taunter just wants that boost in agro, because someone else is already tanking just fine, then all the Taunter has to do is not generate any more hate! The taunter stays at seventyelevenbillion, whoever's tanking will be seventyelevenbillion+some in under two seconds with their next melee round or +hate ability. As soon as the "soft" Taunter drops to 98% or whatever, it's safe to turn on melee again and proceed playing normally. Now if the MT dies, the mob goes no where else, kills zero support or dps - whee! New tank hits their Deflection/Weaponshield/Flash to survive the transition, still has all their cooldowns up since it took such a minimal effort for their starter seventyelevenbillion agro, raid goes on.
I agree with Brohg on the taunt up, they only time this doesn't work is if the pet classes don't control their pets correctly and that can lead to bad things for tanks taunting up. We can say that's the pet classes issue, and it is, but there are a lot of pet class players that don't do it, and don't care to learn/listen
I do believe that you have YET to kill me this way. Vay you might have however I put the blame on YOU being unable to out aggro a single rune cast with subtlety on. i believe you have just identified why he Called me out. to bad VOT doesn't stack with negation, and is less % than negation (i think) as it is rather fun to do on neriak 2 (or anything sheex lives though the 30 seconds of tanking he normally does before splatting) as to the OP: use the Dot free rune the one with the cool down that only mitigates a % of the damage. less aggro and you can create a chain to keep it on. The full rune is going to absorb at best 2 rounds which will cause a spike in incoming damage that the healers may/may not be able to handle. The % mitigation will smooth out the incoming damage and 'should' allow healing to keep up. If not well, silent casting and hope the boss dies before its off.
If your tank is *really* hurting and you can setup a chain, use Umbral Auspice instead of Darkened Auspice. It's the same logic as using Shield of Fate vs. Shield of Consequence. OP- I'm curious, is there a certain raid where you all are wanting to use runes for the MT? The only one we used that on initially was Arx 3 because totems can be a PITA.
Oh it's happened for sure. And it's not like I'm the one killing, just the /popcorn watcher enjoying the show! I just treat you like another tank when I see your name on hott . Usually it doesn't kill you because you stasis, re-rune or blur, but that doesn't mean it's not pretty derp most of the time~
We have done it on AM2 and AM3. We've only beaten AM2 once. The event just takes us a very long time. We are normally well past 15m getting the green golem to 25% though we often bite it during the 50-25% run with DPS fizzling out and adds eventually getting out of control or something deciding the FV is super extra yummy. I know there are a bunch of issues going on (mid tier raiding, oh the joys of having only a 1/2 competent raid lol), but we didn't farm CotF T2 for very long. Most of the tanks only have a few pieces of that gear, and of course competition on the AM1 and Vitio loot is extreme still, though most of the major tanks are fully kitted out with CotF T1.
