Um no. What I'm describing is how the bard is right now in the state of the game. Making these changes would actually bring the bard up to be on par with other classes... If you want rangers to get a backstab, then come up with an actual reason why and back it up. I have backed up my statements every time. I wouldn't say backstab, but a first shot damage modifier from a bow wouldn't be a bad idea.
Brexa is stating that even with our nukes, our damage output in a group isn't as good as it should be. That the group will suffer if the bard has to take attention away to try and damage the mob. That some bards understand this and swap out a nuke from a rotation to put in another song.
Nukes are generally only ever used on a named in grp content or a burn phase of a raid. And there are ways to work it out that the group does not suffer. Which is why I find it all very confusing. Because the only part of it that is true is that a bards personal dps is quite low. But you do understand that every bit of dps they bring to the group via their songs is technically their dps? Bards are quite good, you just don't often get credit for it.
Hi again! I'm less angry now. I know I have some wizard friends that can help me when I need the damage, which soothes me. Okay, yes, thanks for backing me up Crow- I'll explain. The melody of songs we play to buff the group's damage- the songs are dependent on what classes are in the group and what is going on, of course. All have ranging timers. Start the mix with a song that lasts 13 seconds on it's own and costs some mana-aria of flurry, let's say. Next are 18-21 seconds long- ***oddsong***/Firemod/Haste w/damage shield & the crossed swords decide whether the flurry bonus is worth it after the Arcane Anthem song is played. The style of the Arcane innate proc buff that has unlimited procs on all random weapon hits and randomly from damage spells landing. Adds significant damage IMO. The next song could be the three shot "Suffering" innate procs. This song potentially gives each member of the group a proc that could land as high as 45k (or higher) on a melee strike. 3 procs x 6 players x 45000. The amount of time it takes to come around in seconds is 20 or more making the 3 x 6 nullified, so, whatever damage you get out of the proc is pure added DPS. Note: that is potential damage. Here is the standard /Melody that most bards use automatically. Give us the time to step away and we'll leave this going: 1. Flurry Aria 2. Haste V1 3. Arcane aria 4. Suffering song 5. Storm Blade Based on the suffering song for the group, and it's maximum potential, let's acquire a real sense for contrasting time for group damage with all these songs playing, and when the bard decides to interrupt the chain of buffs with a nuke. Let's see! A 6 member group in part of a raid, this situation, 1 bard, 3 Heavy dps, 1 is a healer the other player is a "range" Assist damage per second* class. The party is exposed to a set of songs from the bard that stay in the song window. Let's say we're uber raid geared. The melee dps have 68k dps a piece at a casual burn pace. Range damage players are averaging 60k. Bard is striking hard at 17k dps. 68k X 3 +low bard benefits 71.4k X 3 = 214k 60k + very low Bard benefit ~(5%) = 63k 17k + self low bard benefit = 17850 DPS 281k dps vs. 294.85k dps Difference = 13.85k Burn, exhausting some abilities. 90k X 3 + moderate bard benefit= 106.065k x 3 = 318.195k 88k +moderate bard benefit~(17.85%) = 103.708k 22k + self medium buffs = 25927 dmg per second > 412k dps vs. 474.83k dps Difference = 62.83k If the bard takes 3 seconds away from buffing the group to do damage, the actual flux in damage would be equal to the amount of damage the song <Fire mod> would generate. The group loses 31.k dps for 3 seconds which is 10333.33 repeating of course, total damage. This figure was calculated by including the variables for the first song's length and how often 1 second is missed. If the song drops out of the window for even 1 second, that's 1 second for each dps character. High Burns and extended fights have no wiggle room for any negative flux- this buffing state cannot go on forever without some party exhaustion. Let alone finding the time to waste mana and damage. Right? Imagine the nuke you burn all of your discs on- biffs for 10k. T.T ~Brexa the Bard
I am a little confused. It could be I'm thinking a different way than you are on this. From what I am reading it sounds like you are saying it faster to regen 6k End to use both skills then is it 3k end and 3k mana to use both skills?? - Or is it that we would get more regen and be able to use our songs while in combat to regenerate what is needed and not have to sit out.
I'd recommend dropping Storm Blade and replacing it with pretty much anything. It's not worth the song slot these days. At level 100 in a raid DPS group, I was seeing myself and other bard burns topping out between 60-70k DPS using Garath's Insult (no push on raids), Glyph, and 7th on short fights like WK2 Rolth. I assume other bards out there using Kaficus + Hykast combo at level 100 topped 70k DPS. On longer burns / non-ideal groups, 40-50k DPS is more likely. On a burn, you're going to drop Arcane and your 5th slot. You're going to more than make that loss up when burning properly. Unfortunately, once we run out of mana for burns, we're pretty much done, personal DPS-wise... the lack of any significant mana recovery options hurts us here hard. Always actively rotate AAs and Epic unless a burn mob is coming up, click Selo's Kick and Banestrike every time they refresh, and in groups, set up pulls for burns. You'll see some better combined/sustained DPS numbers (closer to what you posted for burns). With the bard class, you can't just account for songs, you also have to account for bard activated AAs on the group. Now, with that said, bard personal DPS is pitiful compared to other classes. There's no denying that. But, it has always been difficult to justify improving bard DPS while balancing it with how much bards bring to the group, and with that I see two problems: 1.) Bards are designed around the fact that they improve the group, but some of the song lines have lost effectiveness for certain classes over the years. Bards should be able to group with any class and provide a significant benefit if the bard is taking the hit for it in personal DPS. 2.) Bard's power and usefulness is also strongly tied to how many are in the group. Less people, less power / usefulness. Personally, I'd like to see something along the lines of a Proficiency AA like Warriors get that would increase our DPS. The cost for using it would need to be decided though. My two initial thoughts would be one of the following: 1.) DPS adjustment it provides decreases with more members in your group 2.) Reduce the power/effectiveness of songs. I think there would be an issue trying to implement it this way though since instrument mods don't play that big of a role anymore, so there really isn't anything to cap at a lower level to reduce song power to implement something like this afaik.
Oh, and another thing regarding this. It would be interesting to see bard songs start scaling around how many are in the group. Less people = more powerful.
No! that would make you a solo god, and you would never group with me again! hope everything is going well.
I just want to be able to kill some stuff, as a melee class, in a semi-reasonable amount of time. Is that too much to ask?
You are thinking about it a different way. What I meant to get across in that post is that, if we get rid of the mana bar, we would only have to focus on Endurance regen instead of both Mana AND Endurance. It would be easier for the Devs to adjust our Endurance regen than it would be to fix both. Plus it would be easier on us to purely focus on one than on both. I feel like this would put this class in a better place where our DPS matters, instead of just buffing others only.
What you fail to account for is the fact that all endurance classes have a "rest" ability that they can fade regen quickly when low/rezed and when they run out and don't have fade they are hurting. Bards dont have this ability, and would need to be given to them. I don't think it would happen because the dev team already hates that ability, so the best you would do is cripple bards.
Not really. They would just have to our songs and self endurance songs possibly effects us greater. Chorus of Salarra rk.2 - 1: Increase Hitpoints by 121 (L98) to 242 (L1) per tick 2: Increase Mana by 101 (L98) to 202 (L1) per tick 3: Increase Endurance by 9 per tick why not change that endurance regen up to 100 or 150 per tick? Motlak's Lively Crescendo rk. 2- 1: Increase Hitpoints by 1468 2: Increase Mana by 710 3: Increase Endurance by 70 As it stands now, that song alone costs 600 mana. Why not just change the mana and endurance increase to 1200? As I have stated in previous posts, the bards aren't getting the combat regen capabilities like everyone else does. In order for a bard to get the full effect, you have to be out of combat in a resting state.
One of the things for me would be to scale the mods from rof t1 to tds t1 thru cotf raid gear and unlock the max modificator to resonance 40.example Rof t1 35 then cotf t1 37. Cotf t2. 38. Tds 40also Modify puretone disc up to 39
why not just give us a AA that only works when we have rez effects on with a semi long time a harvest like aa that effects end like wiz get for mana only diff is it wont work if we dont have rez effects on.
Worrying amount of misinformation in this thread. Maybe bard personal DPS is too low but the numbers here are ridiculous. Perhaps seek to understand the tools you have first before complaining about your power? Start with "A Tune Stuck in Your Head" first of all: you'll never have to sacrifice your group's ADPS to nuke again. Aside from the annoying push the nukes generate, any DPS they put out is pure gravy. Next you'll probably want to examine the part where you are burning less than it is possible to sustain... dropping a song that is fast approaching its tenth birthday from your line up might be a reasonable place to start.
Maestro Kaesi here! It seems we went below 1000 int, which is telling me that you must not know enough about bard to continue from where Brexa left off. Why did Brexa pick stormblade? She didn't, and she doesn't really play it, she mentioned that if you are away and botting your bard you might play a similar melody. Chances are if you are still playing melodies by the end raids you are not a good bard and should switch classes, every bard knows you adjust to the proper situation and that there is no perfect melody. If you really play the same melody, then you might as well be afk and start the raid by clicking all of your burns. Instead of crying misinformation, debunk what numbers you feel aren't actual. Point out what's wrong, not your method. Chances are we already knew what you said, but we realized it 11 years ago. Further posts requiring an "Int" check based on bard dps. Parses that are not trying to make the bard any worse, ones that show the maximum potential a bard has, if you are not close at all to the endgame or you just play your bard like a ranger, leave. If you actually play a bard, realize your post worsened our class. Instead of squishing someone else's research, provide your own, provide enough information that is smart enough to wrap the rest of this thread into a nice package. Let me get this clarified : The bards are saying their nukes USED to be higher. Now they are pointing out that HEY stop nerfing us it is really pissing some smart bards off. By the time this plea is read, the dps of the bard has already been changed. Selo's kick does way more damage than when this thread started, and the nukes still do the same damage. The fingers were being pointed at whoever lowered the damage for the level 102 nuke with a low twincast rate. But this is not a fix. Kicking for 100K + does raise some dps, but, the nuke is still far too low. Confusing yourself with this thread would require you to have a bias based on the information you already know about your class. If it isn't what you do, try not to be a flamer, and really, be a kind person to the next on the internet. /Twinning Kaesi.
Would love for the push on insults to just be dropped. Using Garath's with no push is great. Pets don't push anymore, current weapon procs don't push anymore... very little actually adds push these days.
There really is no reason for it. It also causes a lot of aggro for bards from the rogues and basically all other melees on the raid!
Why bother to change mana/endurance stuff 'because' when there'd be a monstrous amount of things breaking in the background too? Bard code is a risky thing at best, why go through a few months to change something for no benefit when Bards know how to work the existing system and though it has limitations, it also has benefits at listed above.
