Harmonious Arrow at level cap - good?

I almost let this go. Almost.
I didn't want to clog the bug thread with extra blather - so I brought it here.
Harmonious Arrow at level cap might well be the "way it's always been" - BUT ;
As you've said many times - that's by no means an excuse not to fix something. Right?

In CotF -HA at cap wasn't a problem. The level cap was already met back in RoF.
Rangers could walk into CotF and use all the tools to pull.
So now.. we come into the new expansion. Working name: TeDiouS
In order for a Ranger to use his best pull splitting tool - he's forced to level to 105 to get another rank in it. Then (and only then) can he best pull mobs in the new expac. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Result? Doing exactly what was stated you didn't want happening. Most Rangers had to head back into CotF to grind to level 105, so as to be able to pull (read play our class) in TDS.
Considering everything Rangers did not get with this expac (see Shang's post in Hybrid forum) cutting us a break "somewhere" would not have kiled anyone - and surely not been viewed as OP by any means. At least grouping Rangers could have been able to pull well on TDS from the opening.
But "that's the way it's always been". Funny how that only works on one side of the face.

-Rat

warriors have the same problem with their grab aa

As soon as you hit level 102 and mobs in HAs scale up, you can't use harmonious arrow as a pulling tool anyway. Ensnare and fluster/bluster all the way.

Yes, that's exactly the problem. You have to be 105 to get Harmonious Arrow back to "functional".
However, you can "live without it" grinding CotF HA's to 105 - you can't live without it well in the new expansion. Thus it makes CotF the better place to grind to 105 - so you can play in the new zones with your whole toolbox.
-Rat

Same with Necro Rest the Dead have to be 105 to max it out so you can use for pulling again.

If I can ask, how is this broken?

AA came out you needed the max at the time (level 85) to use it.
Next upgrade you needed the max at the time (level 95) to use it.
Next upgrade you needed the max at the time (level 100) to use it.
New upgrade comes out you need the max at the time (level 105) to use it.

You can't compare using it in CoF to using it in TDS. You CAN compare ROF to TDS or VoA to TDS or SoD to TDS ... but that's not going to get you anywhere.

The game doesn't even start until your max level. This has always been true.

Um, HAs level up past Harmonious Arrow too. The trick is to use Lingering/Drifting Darkness until then. Extra trick: use Bind Sight to harmo those hard to reach MObs. I think that's why they gave it to us in AA form.

Warriors had more leniency with Warlord's Grasp. It works on targets at level +5.

Enchanters can't mez (or charm, or lull, or stun).

Monks can't mez or lull.

Bards can't mez or lull.

Welcome to EverQuest Design 101.

I didn't say it was broken. I said that in light of the fact that they want to herd all the sheep into the new expansion to level up nice and slowly - it's just kinda stupid.
All these max level abilities / tools that are critical to a class's functioning in new zones - only send that class back to familiar (easier) turf to PL themselves up to where they can use the tools again. Not that some people would not do it anyway, but my whole incentive for getting all the way to 105 fast was so that I could better pull the new progression stuff.
-R

Umm.... read what I said again. Perhaps more slowly?
-R

Like I said in the tell I sent you, Lingering/Drifting Darkness were already good up to 105 when we got them at 101 and 102 -- and I consider them superior tools to Harmonious Arrow anyway. They can be cast at huge distances, through walls and over all sorts of terrain. Don't get me wrong -- I bought HA and do use it situationally, but it's not like the Darkness line combined with Flusterbolt are chopped liver.

Agreed, they are very good. But many classes get "lull" spells - tools like HA are class specific.
Once HA is "functional again" you can save a spell slot in many areas by relying on HA and fluster/bluster. It's best for the "quick split" or the "snatch and grab".
The main point of my post was that for all the disingenuous BS we've been hearing about "wanting us to play and level up in the new material" - they've done nothing to encourage this at all.
Leaving HA (and other classes pull skills) at the level cap, only insures people pile on levels before exploring the new zones too much. Ravengloome kinda nailed it above.
-Rat

If they ever change the HA lull to work on mobs higher than the level cap at the time, then they will have to do the same for all the lull abilities that other classes have, because there most definitely is no reason that rangers should have the ability to lull mobs higher than traditional pullers.

Enchanters couldn't gang mezz until they hit the top of the next level cap either. Yes, it's the way it's always been. That doesn't make it right. This philosophy needs to be re-examined in the light of "We want you to level in new content."

Lee of Povar

Well sign me the heck up for this. Or at the very least increase the number of ranks and decrease the number of AAs per rank so the gap between usable and not-usable is decreased.

(And I for one see Rangers as a traditional pulling class. Rangers've had pulling tools like Harmony since Day 1. In terms of original developer intent, Rangers are a more traditional pulling class than Shadow Knights or Monks; Feign Death wasn't intended as a pulling tool and that it was for a time the best way to pull is one of the most interesting examples of emergent gameplay in MMOs.)

Exactly. This is 1 of the big reasons I hate level raises + hate hate hate the new nerf philosophy they have for forcing people into new expansion.

Mezzes + Lulls + Charms have level caps. If you are a class that uses these tools. You need to level BEFORE playing your class the way it was meant to be played in new content.

What bard for example, wants to xp/adventure in new content when thier AE mez is level 105 and they need to be 105 to play the game the way they always played it.

Frankly its an aberration, that borders on being an abomination, that Lulls and Mez are capped so the ONLY time a class can't use the abilities is at the beginning of a new expansion while they level.

They should spend some code time creating in essence a focus degrade slot for spells. Such that a say a mez or lull is 15% less effective each level over its "recommended cap" in duration. So a chanter mez that works to 103 would work on 105 level but for 30% less time.

OR

Make all Lulls and Mezzes and Charms level 101. And change the spell order accordingly.

Yes awesome

I get what Rat was saying.

If they front loaded those abilities at the beginning of the expac, there'd be even less reason to group, in a MMORPG. The AE stuff etc is easy mode. I'd enjoy having it early too, but I understand the design decision to encourage creating a proper group to meet the challenges. At less than max level, the encounters feel more challenging, and are supposed to give you a greater sense of accomplishment. So, at the end, reaching max level / gaining abilities, leaves you feeling like you really progressed your character, because you can then go back to the same areas later, and feel all the more powerful and capable.

Walk into an area with 3+1 roamer... Its either ... guys we're gonna have an add or two that needs mezzing or one off tanked by another group member. Healer might need to heal more than one person in the group.

Or, gimme two seconds, I need to hit a button, then hit another button to bring us dinner.