I just got back from a break and notice my beast pet in full defense mode with em 20 tanks like a wimp. not good at all now. Why do you do this? My pet currently is now just a dot. Is there a reason why you try and hurt pet classes again and again? I don't see how this helps your business.
They did beef up our pet heal spells. It would be nice to bring aegis back up to par, but the Salve of Blezon Rk 3 is nice so keep it loaded.
Your pet still tanks better than a raid-geared knight, and depending on how much you care to support it/how you analyze data better than a raid-geared warrior. My necromancer's rogue pet (EM20) tanks circles around my raid-geared monk.
Yes, DI spread is more advantageous for pets still. Devs intended that. Incoming dps is a different thing though.
I'm not sure what data you're looking at. Incoming DPS is incredibly favorable to pets. Let me quote a handful of the posts/parses*: *Some images removed, because these boards don't allow more than 20 images per post. The big three pet classes certainly mitigate better than raid-geared knights and arguably better than raid-geared warriors over most lengths of time. My necromancer pet in "full defense mode" might out-tank a raid-geared warrior using all their discs, and magicians have tools to make incoming DPS laughable while only cycling short-cooldown abilities (i.e., nothing like Fortify Companion). Pets were bumped down from where they were. But players calling pets "just a dot" after these changes might want to try playing a DPS class without a pet and try tanking as a ranger or monk or (gasp) even rogue or berserker to see how the other half lives.
Okay, not to be rude. The necro pet you showed was having the necro actively protecting the pet. If that is your case then you win. Without those active spells then you don't win. I cannot stop mid raid fight to keep these activatable spells on my pet. I cannot spare the spell slots in group content because of the nature of DoTs. I can however use these activatables while solo at the expense of dps, which is okay. Necros have been a solo class since day one.
I think the intent was that pet operators can either protect the pet or do good DPS - but not both at the same time. I don't see that as totally unreasonable - so long as pet owners can still beat the encounter - just a bit slower. -E
I agree. I just wanted to respond to the comment about the necro rogue pet tanking better than a raid geared monk.
My necromancer's rogue pet out-tanks my monk in terms of incoming DPS and DI spread, by large margins. What parameters would you like? I'm happy to provide data in the form you're looking for. Would you like a long, extended parse with no active use abilities? What sort of mob should I pull? If you don't trust my numbers, I'm also happy to set up a time for us to meet on Test and you can run them alongside me, both of us within parse range.
DPS does not represent risk. You can learn something looking at the turn by turn, see how often the damage for a round spikes over something like 40k. It takes a whole lot of DPS to out run what a healer can do. Death normally comes from nasty rounds close together. Steady damage is not risky. A better chart would show how many seconds it took for the mob to do enough damage to kill the player were there no healing. It could be displayed round by round or as a histogram. It would answer the question "how long do you last" or "how much time do the healers have to heal you". That time being too brief too often is how EQ characters die. I don't particularly want to write a parser just so I can make that chart. Any pet just stomps all over monks and rangers. It is total humiliation still post nerf. Something almost free, costing mana, an ear item, a few AAs and a spell at the very beginning of an expansion beats the hell out of what a player can do having farmed the whole expansion at the end. Not only is it cheap to get it is consequence free if it does actually die. There is another suspended and ready to go. No xp loss, no res effects, no res needed, no running back, no nothing. Can chain summon and sac them at will. All that and they are grossly better, used to be astronomically better, now just grossly better. And still you complain. Can't you take your super imbalanced tank class in your pocket pet and be happy?
I disagree delbaeth. Incoming dps does matter if it is higher than incoming heals. In the case of moloing you use a reactive merc which will fall behind and continue to fall more and more behind until splat. I have watched my pets slowly die because the heal amount is just slightly less than the incoming dps. If you add a second healer merc then everything is okay. A timber wolf on 8/23/2014 in 740sec Rogue Pet --- DMG: 1458139 (100%) @ 1970 dps (1960 sdps) --- DMG to PC: 8288756 @11186dps /GU Tanking summary for: Rogue Pet --- Total damage: 8288756 --- Avg hit: 7413 --- Swings: 1475 --- Defended: 252 (17.1%) --- Hit: 1118 (75.8%) --- Missed: 105 (7.1%) --- Accuracy: 91.4% --- Dodged: 42 (3.3%) --- Parried: 44 (3.2%) --- Blocked: 99 (6.7%) --- Riposted: 67 (5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%) I am kind of interested in what a raid geared monk with 2HB can do in comparison.
If you aren't happy with the tanking power of your rogue pet you might try your warrior pet. You can add 3 healers to a ranger and they don't slowly die,they go poof suddenly.
Yes I agree that Warrior pet tanks better. I just want to see the comparisons on rogue pet with raid monk atm. You can't make wild claims like Feiddan did without backing them up.
Because if you have EM 20, that means you have some raid gear if you're not fully raid geared. It shouldn't be tanking enough for you to even notice a difference.
/sigh Pets tank very well against single targets. If you slow a single target, our runes are admittedly hugely powerful because of how they work, and even on unslowed targets they decrease the incoming DPS to low levels. There are some problems with this approach: In this case, DPS is not reflective of incoming damage. Runes are best used to help healer mercs catch up. Using a rune when your pet is at or near 100% health is generally pointless because it's a waste. You end up with patches of higher DPS (around 6-7K depending on mob) combined with areas with 0 DPS. In a situation with one mob and runes, incoming DPS isn't representative of tanking ability. I've said this many times: pet defenses don't scale with additional mobs. So the pet may be taking less DPS on a single mob, but add in a second mob and there's a large jump. A warrior and a pet might both realistically see 4K incoming DPS on one trash mob, but add in a second and a warrior takes 8K vs a pet taking 11K. A third trash mob would bring it to 12K vs 19K, and so on and so forth. Multiples and Named fights are where tanking ability really counts. Having equality or even an advantage on single trash mobs doesn't lead to much because those aren't difficult fights. Now before anyone says "you can't expect to tank like warriors," I'm aware. This is a response to the post that quoted a number of parses that represent where pets are strong and declaring that "incoming DPS is incredibly favorable to pets." Incoming DPS is incredibly favorable to pets in certain situations. These situations are generally the easier ones. We are, admittedly, strong against a named with no abilities (like Roon). On the flip side, there's a multitude of abilities that make pet tanking difficult (adds, pull effects, etc). On multiples a player tank should have a clear advantage.
The DI curve is not the end all be all of tanking no matter how many times people tell you it is for pets. First, pet DI's are more damage then real players. A DI 19 for a tank is less damage then a DI 19 for a pet, all the way down the line. Second, stop buying all his parses. Showing a pet with runes spammed non stop, for a slowed mob, with full mage gear and then comparing it to an afk warrior or unsupported warrior vs an unslowed mob is/was complete garbage. Its like me showing an enchanter spamming his runes non stop verse a slowed entry zone trash mob and saying look enchanters take DI 0 all the time and avoid 100% of attacks and then comparing it to an afk warrior. Third what level support the owner should provide should vary and thats part of the debate. IMO we should not have to spam all our support on most trash mobs just as most tanks are not required to spam their big discs for them. He claims if we have it we should use it period on any and all mobs. Lots disagree, especially based on their original intent when added to the game. Pets do not out tank any group tank never mind your absurd claim of out tanking a raid warrior. Again out mitigating them in some cases does not mean they ever out tanked any tank. They can't position the mob. They can't tank for non ranged classes. They can't tank multiples, outside of a mage earth pet. They don't have all the activatables and amazing stacking effects to use when needed to handle the situation when it changes on the fly. They can't tank named anywhere near a real tank when under their turtle mode. Outside of when the npc has a PC only effect that negates all that. They do what they do pretty much always with only those few runes and owner heals to get over the hump or die. Again you can't look at parses of slowed mobs, with some pets having full mage armor (which probably equates to full raid buffs for a PC) and an owner spamming runes non stop and then compare it to a warrior on an unslowed mob, with no buffs and using no self runes and no enchanter spamming him with runes. All he wants to do is compare complete tool sets of solo friendly pet classes and compare it to a partial tool set of non solo group classes. And say look its not fair. Otherwise his parses would have factored in tanks spamming all their tools even if its foolish for all mobs(just like it is to spam our 3 runes non stop on trash), on slowed mobs, with full self only buffs and normal tanking buffs and enchanters spamming runes on them non stop. The logic if you have it you should use it didn't apply to tank owners except the one parse he did use it all and then made the parse 15 minutes long to totally negate the impact they had. Or how he disregards self healing because its to complex to factor in. But then we would see what actually happens in game and it wouldn't fit his agenda as showing a tank taking 1K inc dps and 80% avoidance rates for 2-3 minute blocks would not have gotten his OMG point across. He also doesn't want to talk about NTTB + last stand verse 5+ current mobs and merc for those 3 minutes. He might not be able to kill it without outside help which again is the limitation of a group required class that is not solo friendly but damn well knows he can pull a chunk of mobs and tank it with a merc no problem with little to no risk as a group toon.
All that being said. Pets are still doing ok just some tank pets need more hps to handle the new spikes. They could use more AC or base mitigation to accommodate the fact that they more often then not do not have full mage gear and don't have stun procs or mitigation procs to fall back on. Pet activatables that were previously nerfed or purposely limited by low damage caps need to be looked at again revamped.
