I was told last night (by someone that also plays a Chanter part-time) that once you lay Diminising Helix (combo slow/cripple) on a MoB, that any debuff component conveyed by Confounding Constiction will not stack - making it a total waste of time to throw it even on "bigger" mobs. Is this accurate? (If so it's new news to me.) -Rat
No. That's entirely incorrect. You should not listen to that person on any Enchanter related advice ever again. . Debuff that Boss! -- Use your debuffs as much as you can on every target. In group, your on your own, so make sure to stack 1. Enunciation of Tashan Rk. II -- 97 Spell. 2. Ethereal Manipulation -- AA CLASS TAB -- /ALT ACT 2207 3a) Dreary Deeds -- AA CLASS TAB /ALT ACT 753 3b) Demolished Consciousness Rk. II -- 96 spell. Alternate to 3. Diminishing Helix Rk. II Level 98 Spell 4. Confounding Constriction Rk. I Decrease Chance to Hit by 9% with All Skills -- level 99 ---- Raids or BIG BOSS 5. Deep Sleep -- spam the AA "stasis" (/alt act 409] until you see it pop on the named. This spell is triggered by casting a mezz spell, so by spamming a low level mezz AA we can force it to pop 6. Mental Contortion -- (AA -- class tab. /alt act 602) All 6 of these debuffs stack. The only choice you have to make is in section 3. The only reason logically to not use Helix as a slow, would be in a raid format, as it doesn't play nice with shaman slows, or if your grouped with a shaman. Of course if your in a raid/group with a Shaman at all, ideally you shouldn't have to slow at all, but. In most cases I tend to beat them to the punch.
Thanks, I was aware of the rest of the debuff order as we've already had that discussion in another thread. And, I thought I remembered that the Confounding Constriction debuff stacked OK. In our context I use it (CC) on white or better - the blue just die too fast to get anything off as it is. Thanks for the verification. As for the person himself, he was wrong on that one, but most of anything I've heard him say agrees with everything else I've read here. He's also one of the few Mages (pet tanking) I've met that is totally understanding if I get the chaotic/nuke cycle screwed up and accidentally mez the one getting beat on. I'll set him straight on this issue - LOL. Thanks! -Rat
Generally speaking, Tash+DD+cripple is better than Tash+Helix, since the slow lands faster and you never have to change anything or worry about whether you're grouped with a shaman or not. Also, constriction has a relatively short duration and an annoyingly long cast time, so I usually only throw it raid bosses.
Yes.. Ask any 5 Enchanters a question and you get 5 different methods of accomplishing the same desired end. And thanks for the reply. In the group game, with raid level DoT extension focus, CC lasts "long enough" to be viable on anything yellow and red - and on the fence for white. The problem I usually have is: "Is the MoB going to live long enough for it to "matter" that much?" -R
You're wrong. The two options are not equal alternatives. Dreary Deeds 2 and Demolished Conciousness is better than Diminishing Helix not only because it lands faster, but because it's 73% slow vs. 70%. If we're to permanently disregard the advice of everyone who's been wrong, we may as well shut down the forums, as I don't know anyone here who's never been wrong including the developers!
Actually. Khaibasis. You are incorrect. Technically speaking Helix lands faster. Because there is only one spell to cast at 2.5 seconds base Dreary deeds and demolished consciousness is slower because you have DD, 2 seconds to cast + cripple, 1.5 seconds (3.5 seconds to cast DD + Demolished) Vs (2.5 seconds for Helix) Although you are correct that on paper DD + Demolished looks better because of the 73% slow VS the 70% slow on Helix, Every slow that hits in current content is mitigated anyways. So even if it's only a 50% mitigate your looking at a 36.5% slow vs a 35% slow. A 1.5% difference. This is just an example. As there isn't really a hard set way to find how much slows are mitigated. We just know they are. I do agree that Dreary Deeds + Demolished is the best way to go. But for a completely different reason. Stack ability. If a shaman slows when you have Helix on Helix is overwritten, and you lose the cripple component If a shaman slows, With method A) Dreary Deeds is overwritten, and Cripple remains. Very much worth the extra 1second
that being said, if on a raid (or any mob) if I as an enchanter has an open spell slot, i will put in confound contriction. While it is a some what negletable difference it does make a difference. The amount of people that I alone have convinced to re-group with me in POWar because of how useless I make mobs proves what dandin said. for refernce, outside of POWar i would helix if not on a raid because the stat reduction is somewhat meaningless on mobs without silly AC amounts.
Except that you Tash first which causes a 1.5 second global cooldown before you can start casting Helix; whereas you can cast Dreary Deeds during the GCD. Thus, Dreary Deeds gets Slow onto the mob 2 seconds after Tash, while Helix doesn't slow until 4 seconds after Tash. Add in cripple at 1.5 seconds and you're still theoretically 0.5 seconds earlier than Helix.
So if we are supposed to ignore advice from everyone who has ever been wrong on the forums.. then we should ignore the advice given by the fellow who said to ignore the advice, because he's been wrong before several times, right? Paradox?
I wonder if the question wasn't really about Confounding Constriction and Deep Sleep? Confounding Constriction: Decrease Chance to Hit by 9% with All Skills Deep Sleep: Decrease Chance to Hit by 24% with All Skills My unparsed experience has been that puny tanks, that actually need every last debuff they can get, die more if I skip Confounding Constriction, which suggests to me that they do stack. If someone has different information, experience, or parse, I'd love to hear about it.
i do not belive that it is a question of if the effects stack as they clearly do. I would think its more of a question of is it addative or multipltive. Namly by having both on does the mob experience a 33% Decrease to Hit with All Skills OR 30.84% Decrease to Hit with All Skills Now the 2.16% may not make much of a difference but it is still important as we can factor in MC as well and it nets in either 48.13% decrease or 58%. Id say a one in ten extra miss rate makes a very noticable difference over a one in fifty. warning math ahead! the 28.68% is obtained by the following Presumably a mob has 100% chance to hit with all skills. 9% of this is 9% (duh) giving the mob an effective 91% chance to hit. 24% of the now 91% is 21.84% resulting in having the mob have an effective decrease in a chance to hit of 28.68% (9+21.84) alternate math says Presumably a mob has 100% chance to hit with all skills. 24% of this is 24% (duh) giving the mob an effective 76% chance to hit. 9% of the now 76% is 6.84% resulting in having the mob have an effective decrease in a chance to hit of 28.68% (24+6.84)
It could also be that Deep Sleep overwrites "Chance to hit with all skills" without blocking the other aspects of Confounding Constriction, but again I don't think that's the case. As someone who doesn't seriously parse, I really don't know how it works, and it may have changed in the 15+ years since the game was designed, but my understanding was that it was originally based on D&D's old D20 system, so a 20 (96-100%) is always a hit, and a 1 (1-5%) is always a miss, so you should always figure a 5% miss/failure rate.
By the way - this is the "other thread" I mentioned concerning debuffs. Linked here for ease of reference for any n00b looking at this. https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/chanter-question-s.208240/ -R
That thread looks like it was from back when Dreary Deeds 2 was still broken. It's now fixed and working properly.
Personally I do not cast CC in any group scenario. The benefits are just not enough to justify even one cast of it over a nuke. Plus it takes up a spell slot. On a raid sure, because why not? In groups...no. Just no.
I use Confounding Constriction when I'm pulling to break mez, when the tank is weak for the content such as most tanks in PoWar, and on raids.
No enchanter, much less player, should ever state a spell should never be used in groups.Most (if not all) spells are situational in groups, depending on the level, make up and skill of that group. Can you design groups were Confunding is not needed at all? Yes. But you can also design groups were healing is not needed, were a tank is not needed, heck you can design a group were a group is not needed! Does this meen all spells and classes should never be utlized? Heck no! Not utlized 99% of the time? Sure, but every player should be willing to use every spell they have if need be.
Challenge accepted. Please describe the unusual situation where you'd use the spell Sentinel in current content.
