Jumpstart option - new toons level 65

Exp gain is already insane at low levels and other threads bemoan how easy it is to afk tank-merc to mid-levels. Gear is available cheaply for pp in PoK or cheaply for $ with Station Cash. You don't need a insta-65 to gain new members imo, maybe a compromise - insta 65 for a 3-month or longer gold membership?

The game needs more marketing and some kind of matchmaking system to make groups up at very low levels in some zones - maybe that should be a feature with hotzones - auto-enforced grouping to help encourage better playstyles and less PLing (j/k)

This is an interesting thread, felt I should give me input as it might be rather applicable and timely.

History, I played EQ from release through Luclin, took a break, came back for Planes of Power a bit and Dugneons of Norrath, then left for 'good'. Level 65 wizard, epic 1.0 (or as we called it then, 'epic'), 86 AAs when I quit. Gear from dungeons/POP raids.

I downloaded EQ again two weeks ago seeing it advertised on Steam, of all places. I initially logged in on a new account, couldn't remember my login info for my long dead account. Started a new character, got to level 10 (Beastlord). Then I reset my password on the old account and checked out my level 65 wizard, I realized that his equipment was now barely better than when I had on my level 10 beastlord! I went back to playing the new account, figured I'd re-learn how to play there, and eventually upgraded it to gold and bought Rain of Fear. I'm now level 51, 10AAs, geared better than I would have thought possible back when I raided in Luclin/PoP with my wizard.

My thoughts to date are that I wasted a lot of time. I see folks say "You can get level 65 in a weekend" which I'm sure you can, I could not. The learning curve of remember what to do, where to go, following the quests, re learning the tricky aggro radius mechanics and such, I'm at maybe 2 days played and level 51. I now realize I'd have leveled much faster if I'd just sat in one place and pulled things rather than running the Hero's Journey quests, but I thought those would be my best way to gear up. (Comment from my girlfriend while I'd been playing on the couch next to her: You seem to travel a lot in this game... like you travel more than you fight. Me: Hmm... yeah.) Now I know that yes, they geared me up, but I've made so much money selling defiant drops that I could have bought just as good of gear and done a few key Hero's journey quests to fill in the gaps with money to spare.

I guess my point is that its not as easy for new folks or returning folks to level up as it is for vets who know where best to go and have support and knowledge. My old knowledge seems useless. Level 51 was grouping in Karnor's or quad-kiting raptors in my day... I doubt those are good ideas, I'm not even sure where those raptors are now! (Do the oceans still exits? Do boats?!) I feel weak, like without my Journeyman Merc I'm pretty useless. The first levels went by so fast with the merc, I've been struggling to keep my weapon skills within 66% of max, so without him every mob is a challenge. Maybe there should be increased skill gains up to about the 250 mark?

The community seems... OK? I'm on Xegony, and I haven't joined a guild yet, I've seen a couple advertise as welcoming in new and returning folks, so I may jump into one of those. (Unless there's any people who still play from back in my day! I was on Xegony, still am, was in Havenlight back in the day, hung out with some Inner Circle folks... no idea if either is still around) People seem reasonably helpful in the general chat, though I saw a slight streak of elitism once when a conversation turned to "I'd never group with someone that I have never grouped with, I don't trust them!" and several cheers of agreement. Not exactly encouraging. I was once trained by someone who must have thought I was a bot, while I practiced spell skills between sending my warder out to kill things. Trained 30 dromeks on me, and as I kept side stepping his train (some skills don't go away.. I played in Karnor's Grand Central Castle!) asking "um, hey?" he said nothing and eventually ran off. But aside from that, it seems like I could 'break in' to the community again without much difficulty.

So, to the question of whether a jumpstart character or something would have been appealing to someone like me: Yes! I've actually thought about coming back to EQ for years, but kept googling "EQ Leveling speed" and not getting much. The idea of suffering through hell levels again kept me away. I did so this time though and learned about Mercs and found the Almar's Leveling Guide which is what convinced me. (I haven't followed it. Ha). I'd want the experience to be streamlined if possible if jumping in on a higher level character. The Tutorial zone and Crescents Reach were very helpful in coming back up to speed. 65 seems fair? A few hundred AAs? Or quests that grand tons of AAs as an intro/tutorial chain?

The climb to 90-100 initially seemed like it wouldn't be too bad, but I've slowed down once hitting 50. My merc is no longer a god among reds, the higher level stuff in Mesa (Centaurs!) are actually denting his health pool and even killing him now, I may try going to older content and leaving the Hero's Journey (I'm wondering if the mobs in these newer zones this path sends me through are tougher because they are from later expansions...?). I still am enjoying myself, but the game does feel very overwhelming still.

I don't support jumpstart levels - in any game. Those low levels are what helps you learn how your class and the game works. Veteran players know how to level characters and have friends to PL their alts anyway.

Any circumstance a new player has to being jumpstarted levels is bad for the game.

As has been stated already, when the majority of new and returning players have tank mercs leveling them, they learn almost nothing about real playing. Since there is little opportunity to group pre 80, they learn nothing at all about grouping or their role in gouping which for most classes is entirely different than soloing or moloing.

Jumpstart characters I support and always have.

This works well for WoW, and the last time I checked, that game has 9 million or so subs. Now, im not saying that EQ will automatically gain a ton of subs by doing what I said, however, it will prolong EQs lifespan. You can only keep around the current folks that play a game for so long if that game isnt attracting new players or re-hooking the old MIAers.

Its become easy for players like you and I and others that have been playing all along, yes. For returnees and MIAers? Not so much. Since the game has changed drastically since the last time they played and these folks likely dont have any friends that play anymore.

And to anyone else that thinks that things are "fine" as they are, then explain to me and others why EQ doesnt attract new players or returnees at any real rate that matters? Explain to me why EQs population is pointed downward instead of upward?

What's wrong with implementing a system where higher levels can be compensated for playing with other lower level players? You know, like the original intent of shrouds? You could loot an item and when you unshroud you would get the equivalent for your true level? Do the same with experience. Or perhaps, something a bit less exploitative, like a merchant from LDON or OMM type system of getting credit for your missions. I'm sure there are ways to convert your adventure points back and forth between shrouding. Shrouding is a great idea, they just need to fix it and expand it. Make shrouding rewards as good or even slightly better than the T1 gear available for that specific expansion and keep it current with each expansion. That's the key. They implement something great, then let it die and move on.

Again, I feel if you need more players in a specific area, then find a way to subsidize players into that area. If someone wants to level up in 2 days to 80+, then they still can.

Who are these mythical players that would actually be sticking around contributing to guilds and the community if you gave them an easy button to catch up?

Seriously, who are these people? Because as someone that has PLed people, got people caught up on flags and gear, many times, returning people fall into one of two categories:

1) People that enjoy playing and desire to catch up and eventually do so, and
2) People that don't really want to play, just have nostalgia, and even if everything is handed to them on a silver platter quickly fade out and quit logging in again

Neither of those groups are more likely to stick around by making it a joke to start a new character.

Play the game. The early levels and aa are some of the funnest times out there, even when solo. The thing we need to be helping people on is the level grind from 70-95 where no one can get groups and other than a few classes, it gets very hard to progress alone. That is fixed with appropriate content and incentives and bonuses, not by bypassing them because you want more people ready to apply to your raid guild.

Wow has lost 1/4th of their subscriptions over like the last year and a half. That is a massive loss, and its getting worse. With much less inertia and momentum EQs decline has been far less rapid from its peak. They aren't in danger of dying of course, but their so easy a cave man can do it method isn't exactly preventing attrition.

If all the people that advocate for the gimme gameplay of (in your example given) 90/5000 for clicking a button, actually spent time grouping with people, maybe those people would stick around. I'm sorry, I do not think the entire be all end all of this game is raiding and making easier paths for people to be "raid ready".

EQ's population is pointed downward instead of upwards because its a 14 year old game. Its as simple as that.

How is it fun though when there is nobody in the early levels to group with? Yeah, it was fun for you and I when those levels were flourishing with players back in the day. Now the social part of EQ is forever at max level, always. And not every class can solo. Also, keep in mind, when these folks return, they are in outdated garbage gear and a lot of them likely do not have the resources or friends when they return to help get them jump-started. So they get frustrated and quit again.

No where did I say anything about raids in my replies. Your the one that mentioned raids, not me. Besides, a lot of these old returnees arent exactly thinking about "raiding" when they come back to check the game out again. I said what I did and brought up what I did because I think that it would help keep the MIAed folks around longer, and re-hook them to them game if they can automatically be shoehorned into the social part of the game instead of being in ghost towns.

Was EQs subscription peak ever as high as WoWs subscription peak?

The issue is the AA's not the levels, I agree leveling is fine.

Maybe the merc tank needs to be able to level a toon solo higher level before having to group.
maybe the mercs take lower exp if your toon is 100% AA at lower levels.

maybe add magic pools for the lower level toons that puts a AA EXP bonus on the level level toons in that zone only to get AA's faster. Die or zone and loose the buff.

At least the option would be there to help feed this game some new-old blood again. At least it would be trying. Which is a far cry from what is happening right now. The game is doing a horrible job at keeping these MIA/returnees around. Sure, there are cases when some stick around, but that is due to them having high end friends that still play. It could be doing a far better job at it than its doing now at retaining these players who come back and check the game out.

Your essentially playing a single player game when you come back to EQ and are level 50. There is simply nobody playing at those levels anymore. Not to mention, the game has changed so much since the last time a lot of these folks last played.

Guys, I learned so much 1-65 on my cleric infact it's exactly the same character as my cleric is at 100!

Sometimes I swear you guys don't play this game, Pre-70 characters are almost nothing like they are at 100. Take a cleric for example sure you cast spells that heal but pre 70 it's a lot different than at 100.

You know what playing the game 1-70 does? It teaches you how to play the game wrong. As a cleric I would get a tank that never needs heals, as a chanter I get a tank that can handle multiple adds.

Really all the 1-70 player gets to learn is how to play alone.

One of the biggest complaints about the mckenzie missions was that people who leveled there, did not learn to play their class. Those missions are pretty much the same as 1-70. They even overlap 50 levels or so!

Can't say I care for any of the suggestions in this thread.

Level 1-100. Should remain this way.

I thought the point of this was to get new players to stay. Less so for returning players. And rather unimportant to old timers, except it sure would be good for us old timers if a lot more of the new players would stick around.

So I am for anything, this included, which makes the game seem more social for new players. Instead of the old "get a tank mercenary and go molo to level 65" stock answer I see so often for new players asking just what is going on here.

Of course, I can remember how really impossible this game seemed when I first started playing it in beta, and the only thing that kept me bothering to log in was other people playing in the same zones I was in.

This is not true for all classes - I played my druid, grouped up to 60, and was a second rate healer for quite some time - then druids have this 20 or so level area where they're more DPS than they are healers - then they become very good healers - After getting PL'd to 90 I could heal as good as any level 95 cleric, druid, or shaman - obviously I had some Mana issues though (This was during VoA)

Honestly, it's not PL'd characters that suck, it really has nothing to do with it.

That all being said - I'm still against it, there's a lot of content at lower levels, just because it's not mercenary and partisan quests doesn't mean it isn't a viable way to spend time - as with any MMO it's best to try with friends. Why start at level 65 when you can just follow a tank merc around and not heal him once during that time?

Trouble is, why would someone who wants to play a social game bother with the garbage the low level game is now in this game? How many car sales would a company get if the cars all misfired on a couple cylinders and the locks didn't work, but they told customers don't worry, in a month it'll all be fine?

Your entire line of thought seems to boil down to rewarding people for quitting. Taking your strategy to its end point, the game would be healthier if everyone quit for a year or two! Ludicrous!

Fact: EverQuest, as a 14 year old game, has more information sources for new, returning and current players to access than any game on the market!
Fact: Information is just a "Google" away from anyone willing to tap a few keys on a keyboard!
Fact: In-game, there are hundreds and hundreds of players on each server more than willing to answer questions and assist players who have questions.
Fact: Rewarding people for doing nothing more than logging into a game is no way to create a committed game population.
Fact: EverQuest is NOT WoW and, with any luck at all, will NEVER become a WoW clone!
Fact: Any game is what the players make it. Players who expend the effort and energy to succeed WILL succeed. Players who don't, won't.

This is one of the only "facts" you stated that matters...from a business aspect it's NOT anything like wow. Today, with Rift announcing it's FtP launch (http://www.riftgame.com/en/promo/freetoplay.php), EQ now more then ever has an opportunity to do something to get some more players into the game. It cannot however expect to gain any new players with it fails to embrace a new tactic for do so. Keeping this mindset is like saying the we don't care if we ever get any new or returning players, and those that do we don't care what hurdles you need to do. Everyone else did it when the low level game was healthy, you can do it all alone! EverQust, the MMORPG at end level the MMOOPG all others!