Should there be a place in Everquest for a player like me

I want to preface this post by saying that I am in no way upset by what happened.
I do not think I was wronged in any way.
I made a decision back in November knowing full well what the consequences could be.

I play Everquest with 6 accounts. On Friday 4 of those 6 accounts were suspended for cheating. I am 100% guilty. On 5 of the 6 accounts I use 3rd party tools to automate game play.

Here is some background on who I am as a player and how I ended up making this decision.

I have been playing Everquest off and on for over 20 years. I started when Kunark came out. I think that first year I averaged 6 hours a day in game. I fell in love with this game. I loved the difficulty and grouping. I didn't multi-box and tended to look down on people who did.
Of course over time my life circumstances and priorities changed. I would leave eq and come back many times over the years. By 2015 I had stopped trying to group with other people regularly. I generally only had an hour or two at night to play and no set schedule. I could go days or weeks without logging in.

Around this time I started multi boxing 2-3 characters with mercs. I didn't use any automation tools. I eventually started using a program that allowed me to lay out the ui that made it easier to control all three characters from my keyboard.

I think this was around the time that HAs came along. I would find myself playing for a few months, then quitting only to start up again after a year or so.

I always seemed to hit a wall around level 90-95. I just didn't make any significant progress. I didn't seem to have the skills to handle 3 characters simultaneously and the merc healing often left me dead even in HAs. By 2020 I had pretty much given up on EQ.

In November of 2021 I got the EQ bug again and started up a few characters. This time I decided to try using some automation tools because I didn't want to fall into the same trap of hitting a wall.

I have to say that since November I have enjoyed playing EQ a lot more than I have the previous 6-7 years. My group hit level 102 the day before the suspensions. I wasn't getting owned by even+ cons and named in the HAs. I was really enjoying playing again.

• I have a Shadow Knight main that I play manually, with basically 5 super mercs.
• I have never done any unattended gameplay.
• All 6 of my accounts are All Access accounts with perks.
• I have never in all 20 years of playing sold anything in the Bazaar(i know that seems weird but I just never wanted to bother)
• I don't camp spawns or farm gold and sell them for krono.
• I have only ever bought 1 krono, and that was recently to get plat to buy spells for my 6 accounts
• I have never sold anything in game for kronos
• I basically play HAs and missions for fun

All of that brings me back to the title of this post.

Should there be a place in Everquest for a player like me

I can't and really don't want to play EQ the way it is intended to be played anymore. I don't have the time or inclination to invest in that approach. I love the EQ universe and I still want to continue to be in it.
But I want to play it in a way that is fun for me. The only way I have found that is to run my own crew with automation tools.
I am not anti-grouping, I could see myself grouping with one of my characters if/when the situation presented itself, it just that I have so little time to invest it makes it really difficult.
I am totally willing to fork over $80-$90 a month to Daybreak to run my crew. I feel like its a way for me to support the game and allow them to continue to develop new expansions and allow me to continue to be a part of this world that I love so much.

Sadly I don't think it will ever happen and I don't really want to continue knowing that I will likely continue to get suspended and eventually banned. I have found a way to play that I find enjoyable and don't really want to go back

I also wonder if there are any more players out there that feel the same way I do. Am I the only one that went down this path?

Anyway. I am not trying to garner any sympathy or anything. I just wanted to know if there could possibly be a place in EQ to allow someone like me to continue to play this game.

Cheers

DPG has taken their stance on this. Agree, disagree or indifferent it does not matter. The opinions of a vocal few on the forum has no meaning.

You know what your choices are and you have the information you need to make your decisions.

No, but the features should be integrated into the base game. This player-base is old and unhealthy and some have developed debilitating conditions and they would be necessary accessibility options.

I'll respond to the whole post as well, but this was such a breath of fresh air that I have to stop and commend you for simply owning it.

Lets be realistic here. What they allow has changed wildly over the years. When I first started playing you could not even run multiple instances of the software on one computer and trying to do so would get you banned. They introduced mercs which was an anathema to the original design. They have stated that mutli-boxing is fine as long as there is no automation. I just asking if maybe they should look at their current stance and see if maybe that should evolve.

I've chopped out a lot of your post to make the quote a bit more manageable. Essentially, you would like to continue playing a solo player running a mostly-automated 6-character group.

You ask, "Should there be a place in EQ for a player like me (you)?" Should implies some sort of ethic such as in, "There 'should' be a place in EQ for you and thus Daybreak is obligated create that place for you." I don't think "should" factors into the conversation. I would instead rephrase it as "CAN there be a place in Everquest for a player like me?"

I don't see why the why Daybreak couldn't create a "automated play allowed" server. It could even be used like an "Australia" server. Break the rules on Live servers too many times and you get transferred. Or you can choose to be there.

Another question is, "Would there be sufficient population on this new server to justify the expense?" Would the automated-boxer players actually migrate or start characters there or is it simply more fun to play automated characters around those who don't automate? Is there an as-of-yet not fully described desire to advance one's characters with relative ease so that when one must be used, it can be and at its fullest power?

There's a lot of market research to be done here, but it's a taboo market.

I think EQ should offer more content that doesn't require grouping instead. I think most people box because they, from time to time, don't feel like socializing(and thats ok). But if you don't box a group yourself, then there isn't much you can do by yourself in current content. A merc is often not enough if you want to do something meaningful.

There are multiple ways that DBG can accomplish this, the most obvious one is to make class abilities functional again. For example: Allowing various forms of CC to function and to not have mobs summon, would go a long way, to help me molo on my wizard when Im in a molo-mood.

If there were more options for moloing, then I think a lot of cheating would go away.

There are a LOT of people who feel the same way you do. I came back to EQ after taking a long break and it just is too stressful boxing a group and it's not fun(boring) just trying to solo. I don't have time to LFG, gather the people up, get prepped etc.. I have like an hour here and there and would love to be able to use all my toons in a group, without alt tabbing and going crazy. Hoping they introduce some new UI or something that helps people box their toons. I was so excited for EQ again, but without something to help boxing, I'm quickly losing interest. I pay for 7 gold accounts and bought the expansion for all.

It's 2022 now, the game and player base has aged and changed, time to start thinking about QoL improvements for boxing. Stop the people abusing those programs and figure out a way for a program like that to be implemented into EQ now. EQ can't afford to lose players, it's not really gaining any new ones.

I do want to socialize and more molo content wouldn't fix the problem. When I box, I do it to get things done there are no groups available to do it. Going back and doing old content. Doing new content during low play hours. Helping a single person complete a task when the 2 of us couldn't reasonably duo it. Getting going quickly during a short play session.

Boxing bridges a gap for me. I don't need new gaps.

There are, in my belief, 2 kinds of boxers using automation. Those trying to make for a more positive boxing experience. People who want to support a raiding main or fill play time gaps of their friends. These people usually 2-3 box and just want to focus on their main, some 6-box, but they are probably not extremely common.

Those who are looking to play alone. Run multiple groups at the same time. Maximizing farming to buy Krono. The Krono comes from the players who are basically in the 1st category, but instead of subbing multiboxes, are buying Krono to sell to players to obtain the same results. Both of these types of people are not going to be on the server you suggested, so the server wouldn't work, except for a very very VERY small minority of the game that wants a single player version of Everquest.

In both cases, neither group would want to be on that server.

I agree with this. I know multiple instances use to require multiple installs. They have supported multiboxing and if you want to talk about an advantage over another player (which is called cheating), having a box in itself is a massive advantage. The box being enjoyable via a level of automation isn't the real advantage. Autofire, autofollow, and many other things were once bannable 3rd party abuses that are now part of the game.

My main point however, when you quoted me, is that DPG is already aware of this, I am sure of it. These conversations on the forums usually become negative and get locked or deleted. A lot of people have already expressed your concern, so much so that Accendo made a post specifically to address it.

Once upon a time I had some very interesting conversations with one of the (long since gone) developers surrounding the idea of controlling more than 1 character from a single UI on your "main" characters screen.

They believed it was something the team should consider though they went to great pains to make it clear it probably would not happen in quite the way we were discussing - this was long before the Mercs were ever put into development and wasn't remotely a "Merc like" discussion so I am not claiming any credit for their inception at all.

Something like an isoboxer set up but supported in-game, maybe with an expanded interface so you never needed to swap screens you could just click the other characters hot buttons from within the one characters screen, kind of like overlays.

Now of course I do not support cheating, I don't cheat, but I do understand that what boxing & software-assisted boxing do is essentially allow a person to consume EQ content alone by way of being in command of more than 1 player character.

However, EverQuest has basically got an ideological brand stake in the "no solo content" realm of MMO's so it has long resisted crafting any serious attempt at a solo levelling path within EQ, so arguably teh answer to your question is No, there really is no place for a player like you, if you cannot easily solo on one character then you should not expect to solo by any other means easily either, whether manually boxing or assisted boxing, at least the manual boxing has a very real-world skill-check in forcing you to single-handedly manipulate the controls of multiple separate machines when trueboxing, or operating multiple separate game windows so provided you are able to fluently do that the devs give that a pass, but when you use assistance you are side-stepping that skill-check & that's cheating because you have avoided the thing that keeps the amount of extra help you can avail yourself of minimalized, opening the door to controlling entire raids , or dominating entire zones, by way of programs which is disruptive.
Or, put another way, you circumvented, the manual skill-check, greater attention requirement, and higher manual dextery requirement of multiboxing without assistance.

I personally hope that group-focus continues, but not without making that commitment to really facilitating "groups for everyone" - which is why I keep repeating the need for a "sidekick" or "boost the noob" type system for EQ - so that no matter the level difference a player can jump in & play where everyone else on their server is at, at least for group content anyway.

I would hope there is a day when EQ players of any level can happily group with any other players of any level so that every player can choose to enjoy the latest group content rather than struggle alone in the wilderness with temptations like "assisted boxing" constantly begging for their attention (and money) and the associated risk of falling for that temptation. Maybe that way the only boxers will be those who truly enjoy that higher skill check challenge but they will not have to depend on that because getting a group will be a lot easier than it is right now.

I'd support a "bot-friendly" server that required a gold membership. I wouldn't play on it but I think it fits a niche market. It could also serve as a prison server for people who get busted for botting.

It'd be an experiment worth trying.

In the meantime, there is Factorio, Screeps, Dyson Sphere Program, Satisfactory, modded minecraft. All very different than what you're talking about, but still similar.

A game build around botting a group-RPG would actually be kind of interesting.

I feel your pain and appreciate your honesty. People who want to play EverQuest with their own group are okay in my books as long as they are not hurting anyone. I'd even be okay if they could pay for their own instance.

Playing EQ the way it was intended is fraught with problems. Twenty years ago, I remember going LFG for hours, more often than not for weeks on end, and finally quitting in disgust. Necessity is the mother of invention. People started boxing because it was a way they could actually play EQ and progress their characters.

EQ should be doing more to make boxing easier. Adding more macro commands and more automation would be a good start. They could even make a special Boxer perk package where boxers pay for more commands.

Sure, EQ is a group game that was originally designed with class interdependency but SOE and DGB have introduced many pay to win mechanics that have eroded that fundamental design concept over the years. That horse left the barn many years ago.

The real problem is the plat farmers who use automation to monopolize spawns so they can sell items for real money. I think the new loot rules for Mischief and Thornblade have helped to address that problem.

They could even experiemnt with such a server & EQ provides the "assistance software" themselves so that they can police it better maybe, any player doing so without actually running that "official" stuff would just get banned right away.

I disagree, though I would welcome better Mercs that are not so weak that they get you killed more than they help.

It should however be putting more work into making grouping easier. And by that I mean pick-up grouping too, something EQ has gotten further & further away from, even if the players are partly to blame for that by becoming more insular/isolationist/exclusionary over time.

I am like you but I play the game without "extra" programs that can get you in trouble.

You can 3 box without automated programs. Just make your group work for you so you don't need to hover over each one throughout the fight.

Is it easier with those programs? From what I understand it sure is. It allows you to do so much more and faster. And make larger groups.

My group just hit level 116 and will prob not get much further for a while cause Anniversary stuff coming up and need to get the little ones their steins etc. and I am in no hurry to rush through each expansion or quest or whatever.

And if 3 are too many then just run 2. You can still play the game just not at the break neck speed or with the ease of more players in your group. And you might die a lot....but its ok to die in EQ

So I think your question is more of "Is EQ ever going to allow some players to use programs?" Cause you can play the game without them. Its not like manual labor where its that difficult.

Not sure what never buying anything in the baz or never selling anything for a krono has to do with it, but there are a lot of us out there that do not use Krono, or farm for chase, or whatever.

Most of my work has been in software automation; I would love the chance for a bot-friendly server where I could try to write a massive set of scripts to level 1-120 getting epic, spells, tradeskills, etc.

The biggest problem with that is the massive server load, a $10ish a month subscription is not supposed to cover 24/7/52 active gameplay. If they limited accounts on that server to 30ish hours a week it could be reasonable.

and for an extra challenge, make it a PvP server?

My favorite high school programming project was writing a game where each 'player' submitted a script (really just bytecode for a virtual CPU) to control a little tank, and the tanks would battle it out.

At the risk of going off on a tangent from the thread, I've long theorized that the biggest driver away from pick-up groups with randos is that it's impossible to know how well geared/AA'd someone is in the LFG window. It didn't matter so much at level 70, but at level 120 the disparities can be severe. If EQ could calculate some sort of generic scoring system for just stats and AAs so that you can see in the window if someone meets the minimum stats for a level/expansion, I think we could effectively re-launch "LFG".

• Tanks would be scored on raw AC and AA relative to level
• Healers and Caster DPS would be scored on raw mana and AA relative to level
• Melee and Hybrid DPS would be scored on raw HP and AA relative to level

Example:

• Lilbraen is LFG
• System checks Lilbraen's unbuffed, un-heroic-modded HP and sees that it's high for his level (due to raid gear) and scores a 5/5.
• System checks Lilbraen's AAs and sees that he has 90%+ of AAs purchasable at his level and scores a 5/5.
• LFG Window shows "Lilbraen, 120 Berserker. Current content score: 10/10."

Should there be a place in the game for people who use third party software to automate their toons?

Sure. You can spend the rest of your time in the Cat Room, with no way of ever leaving. Otherwise, no the game does not need people who use illegal software.

I guess a "gear score" system paired with a boost system could fill that functionality, though that gear score should remain dev-side visible rather than player-side visible imho.
Then in conjunction with each other those could be used to provide an average group-geared player a stats boost to bring them up to an acceptable baseline.

However that entails the risk/downside that earning better gear would have a diminshed sense of accomplishment until the poorly geared player started to outrank the average gearscore because they would not be seeing the improvement of a new item, hidden as it would be by that boosting system.

Perhaps while the gearscore should remain invisible a "meter" showing how much boost a player is being given would at least give a feedback loop to the poorer geare player so that they can see they have improved by observing the reduction in how much boost they are getting when equipping their new item & feeling like they are being propped up less when earning & equipping upgrades.

(I say the above with the "sidekick system" functionality in mind)

The topic of the conversation is that the software used would be legal thus the illegality of this issue becomes irrelevant. If the game play style was supported as first party software, then it wouldn't be cheating or "illegal".