Boxer Hate Discussion

Mkay.

I am amazed I havent been banned for boxing then, since I have been cheating for over 10 years now!

Oh wait its not cheating? Oh its even endorsed by DBG with a server that caters to boxers!!
Filthy cheaters!!

Stop acting like you didn't get what the guy meant.

Even if DBG condones it, of course boxing is a form of cheating the game world and intended mechanics.

You're combining the power of multiple characters, you are no longer required to find groups, you are no longer having to give loot to other people, you can create your own instances, you can buff and PL your own characters.

If boxing wasn't a form of cheating the game world mechanics, it wouldn't be this popular.

If someone who knew nothing about this game, was told that some people are able to have multiple times the power of someone else, the first word they would use to describe it is...cheating.

You can call it whatever the hell you want, find whatever excuse you want, but boxing is not how EQ was designed to be played. Boxing completely changes the power dynamics of an individual player.

Please tell me what games are out there that don't reward players for having a higher level of skill, or ability than other players? Your argument is that someone has more power, but that person has to put in more work and have a higher skill level to do so. Games are designed to reward more capable players with better rewards, that's what keeps people playing. Regardless of what your perception of it is or not things that people use to play this game and box still require them to have more skill in certain instances and do different things than your average player for that crew to work and coordinate.

Cheating would be if these tools are giving those players things that they can do that are outside the boundaries of what they're capable of doing. Boxing doesn't do that, it just requires that individual to coordinate 2, 3 etc toons to accomplish it. 3PS, or not, still requires them to do more to be able to have that effectiveness. Boxing rewards players who are capable of putting all of that together and tackling those challenges. It's a different layer of difficulty to the game, and players are rewarded for being competent at it.

I suppose that goes for any players though. You can have those players that are awesome at their role in a party and have someone else who doesn't have a clue.

judging from the population of Rizlona vs Aradune, very much doubt that boxers are the majority.

Don't make me laugh. EQ has always been about timesinks, never about skill. Go play Street Fighter or Valorant if you want a skill based game.

Boxing simply allows you to skip the timesinks of forming a group, it allows you to skip the timesinks of having to share loot. It makes a player feel powerful, because you become self-sufficient, allowing you easymode access to your own group, your own buffs, your own loot.

lol, skill, I almost spit out my tea

The only thing MMO excel at is the social aspect, it's also the one thing boxing destroys.

you forgot they have to put in more cash - Are we heading to a pay to win argument?

If you can skip timesinks because you're capable of actually doing it then great. That's an advantage of being able to box and actually do it. You went from it's cheating to now it's just avoiding time sinks. So, progress?

I get the social aspect argument but that's not everyone's reason for playing. Both methods of play can still exist in the game for both types of players. It's obviously lasted this long. Some people just want to login and get pixels. You can still do your thing while they do theirs and vice versa.

what are you even you talking about with your 'skill' and 'capable of doing it'

EQ is a game played by soccer moms. It's not e-sports, you don't need to memorize 40 button combinations, you don't need to compete with anyone. A person with the reaction time of a turtle could play this game.

So cut the bs, anyone who can add 1 and 2 together can box, that's not the point. The point is that boxing affects the social fabric of this game, it creates power unbalances, it disturbes the economy, and affects the game in ways that were never intended.

You and I aren't going to see eye to eye on this. But you're basically saying "this games easy and anyone can do it" but then also saying "one person doing more of this easy game disrupts it." Not sure if you just want to argue for the sake of it or what. Bottom line though, let people.play the game they want. You don't see boxers posting "Solo players suck!!1!" Threads. Your vision doesn't have to match everyone else's and that's entirely ok. Good luck in your adventures friend.

The biggest way in which boxing disrupts the game is social, it affects the social fabric.

When I think back, EQ used to consist of individuals who identified with their character. I don't remember the names of those people, but I remember a monk, a cleric, I remember friendships with characters, a social dynamic between characters who needed and relied on each other.

Boxing is the complete opposite, it is the breakdown of the social fabric, it is a form of isolationism where one replaces social interactions with a selfish need to gain power. It undermines the whole concept of an MMO where individuals rely on each other, interact with each other, and build friendships with each other.

This is nice and I'm happy for you that you have positive memories with your previous social interactions. I'm sure most people, including myself, have had similar experiences. But it's still projecting your personal experience and preferences to other players and expecting it to align.

Personally I think MMOs are designed with player agency in mind. They let players play the game as they choose. Not only with their class and in game choices, but with how they go about playing the game. It's an RPG, you play the role you want and that role doesn't strictly have to be within the confines of the game. I respect that you appreciate the social side of it but don't always expect everyone to line up with that view.

One popular counterargument everyone knows, goes as follows "How does it affect you? If you don't like boxing, just don't box."

This argument doesn't fly of course, servers have population caps.

If someone is level 30, and they're on 1,000 cap server with 1,000 individual single account owners, they might have 4 grouping opportunities.

But if that same level 30 is on a 1,000 cap server, but with 500 boxers and 500 single account owners, they now only have 2 grouping opportunities.

Muhammad Ali would disagree.........

.......trust me, this makes a lot more sense than what Skum said.

Problem is with your fake maths.

Where did you study for your MMO sociology degree, the University of the back panel of Kellogs Cornflakes box?

It was the prize inside the cracker jack box, duh.

I disagree with this statement. You assume too much. I box 24 toons right now. Your assumption is that because of this I play alone. I group with someone that plays 12 and another is joining us that plays 6. Whereas, on Aradune we could all 2 box and go into Guk and take on the Frenzy camp. On Riz we can load up our characters and break into Fear. We all talk. We have a guild. Why would you assume that that wouldn't be the case? It is an MMO. Some of us just like to take our challenges to the next level if we are given the opportunity to do so.
Boxing, playing solo, isolating, being social. None of those things are equal. They vary player by player.

Regular people don't play 24 accounts and they no longer feel welcome in this game because of the rampant boxing. It is not the EQ they want to be part of. Boxing causes single account owners to leave the game.

But you don't think this creates a problem, and DBG supports your playstyle, good for you.