Can we just get rid of Truebox by now?

Truebox sells that warm fuzzy feeling to people. On RF it was a problem with people Emque-2'ing past guilds who were trying to set up and getting dps raced by mage armies on minis and things. Does more than ONE SINGLE GUILD on any of the last 3 TLP's even try for OW content? I'll never understand the issue people with boxers when DBG has gone out of their way to make all content super available to everyone. Its not like people are stuck to only raiding DZ's, no guilds pursue OW targets on Coirnav or phinny when it was pre PoP.

The only way this might be true, is if each boxer is only given a single vote. Rather than each boxer getting a vote for each of their boxes.

And even if each boxer was only allotted a single vote, and there was a true box versus no-true box vote, the final tally would be close. I'd wager the non-true box side would win, however. On Ragefire, just about everybody I know has at least 1 other box. And the people who start out with 1 box always end up adding more eventually. I don't think there is a single person on the Ragefire server who would vote in favor of TrueBox, yet I know dozens of people on Coirnav (for example) who WOULD vote in favor of non-TrueBox.

However, without a doubt, there are more supporters of non-truebox if a boxer is given 1 vote for each account they have. In this sense, though I seem to be only a single person, I'm actually speaking for 6 paying customers.

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself

If you want to start throwing argumentation buzzwords at me (Yes, I took argumentation in college also). Since you made a claim, the burden of proof is on you to prove it. You can't cry Ad Hominem because I'm questioning the validity of your credentials.

You'll be hard pressed to find ANYBODY who actually boxes 4 or more, who proclaims "setting up my boxing system was so difficult it would require a long list of convoluted instructions in order to explain how it worked. . ."

well it was the first week of the server and I would suggest he was leveling there, clearly not the best spot on the server at that level but whatever. Next thing you will say is it didn't happen but it did and I'm turned off and like Truebox.

Of all the talking points I had, you ignore them and then single out one particular part with a trollish demand for proof. So, we're done. Have a nice day.

I didn't think you actually had boxed before. It was obvious by your ideas and statements.

Demanding proof implies one is a troll? I feel like I'm being trolled even engaging that idea.

According to you, the entire justice system is trolling each and every day in that case. I'd love to see deeper into that beautiful mind of yours.

do you always lie? make up? the mage armies were off of ragefire half way through kunark because of the nerf...i was in a couple raiding guilds over there and we never had dps races with any not armies.... we did have constant dps races from tempus and there 200 man raid team.

Bro....its a dps race....calling card of the mage boxer.

So it was you

they needed mage pets they couldn't win a dps race on anything

Content will be unlocking so fast and with AoC the ability to farm content to sell stuff with your big box army will be worthless. Tradeskills will be worthless in era for the most part.

Just let people box cause keeping a group geared may be possible but keeping 40 somewhat geared to withstand the fast progression will be almost impossible.

No, because no one wants to see 24-36(or more) one man armies rolling around into anything they can and taking it from a 6 man group. And pick's don't solve the issue as they will go where they please and can usually cover multiple picks. LJ/RF and previous TLPs were notorious for this.

If you want to box armies just to play alone, go on test(its at least free) or a healthy regular server. Boxing is needed for these to survive and do almost anything at all outside cutting edge raiding. It's not needed on TLPs and only disrupts the majority who don't box armies.

Would love to see actually proof or more than 1-2 box “army” (which apparently are 6/12/18/24/36/40 deep depending on who’s telling the story), yes there was at least one. But seriously Ragefire/lockjaw has so many problems (stuff left in, people instantly leveled to 50, queues, stability problems, pick problems, bosses dying before being rendered, a raid rotation no one ever planned on following, GMs backing out of enforcing said rotation the way they said they would, every toxic player on a single server at once, etc etc. )

MoTM, AoC, Better Pick, etc. would all make things better than those servers were. Personally I don’t care either way, but people forget the #1 request months before/during RF/LJ wasn’t “truebox”...it was lack of instances. But even then Phinny came about, solved other problems but also was “truebox”, so boxing now gets blamed for everything.

To be fair, if they limited an IP address to have no more than 6 accounts logged in, would that meet far enough in the middle to accommodate both worlds?

I mean I six boxed since the launch of RF and with the inception of pick zones it was a rare day that I ran into any camp problems. The “worst” was chasing down giants in solb with multiple picks and trains chasing people out of certain camps like GEBs

The issue was always box armies monopolizing content - especially raid content; not with middle-man small time boxers.

With AOC and Pick zones solidly entrenched, true box seems to be taking a sledge hammer to a tumb tack...

Mainly because getting another IP isn’t a problem. There’s not a lot of good ways to stop “abuse” (defined by whoever) without the sledgehammer.

I have no proof other than, in my time during early ragefire, there was easily a dozen or so people who would box between 6-18 characters (Or more depending if said person was there to out DPS raid targets). And I'm sure we can all remember Frenzic

Think the only big problem I had with multiboxing people in early Ragefire was the server-overload.

Dunno how big a population freakshow these two new servers are going to be. But staying in queue for hours to log on to group up with friends and then find a lot of dudes boxing 6, 12 or 18 characters alone, while the equivalent amount of individual players can't log into game to group with each other, was pretty meh.
Everyone paying to play on the server has the same right to be there, but you can discuss the morality of locking out 24 individuals to play on the server for the sake of 4 and their boxed accounts.

Eventually you would be able to log on to the server without being benched, but that issue alone, sparked probably the same amount of complain-posts (not even thinking about support tickets lol) concerning boxers, as the amount of post these new 2 tlp servers has delivered so far.

Instead of players...look at as accounts. From a business standpoint...that is what DGB should be looking at. How many accounts do each of the servers bring in? How much $$ are they making? If you alienate boxers how much money do you lose? If it costs you nothing to launch a server...WTF dont you just make another server with AoCs and no truebox and make more money? It is mind boggling why you wouldnt. UNLESS it goes against what you (devs) and their buddies who play agenda. If that's the case then the company is in a worse place than we all think. DGB has sunk a lot of games...you can look up the list. I would be sad to see EQ make that list.

How many mass boxers pay for their accounts with Krono? I would bet a large number of them. That requires them to have a fairly steady supply of krono coming in. Would a server dedicated to large boxers have that steady supply of incoming krono in order to support those boxers? Who are they going to be buying those krono from? Other mass boxers? Who are they going to sell their loot too? Other mass boxers? Boxers are supported by the individuals who need to pay for their goods and services because they can't acquire those items themselves. On a server where everyone can acquire the items themselves you don't have much of an economy going on. Boxers are every bit as dependent on the economy as the individual accounts. Those boxers would eventually have to move back to the non-box servers in order to keep their army fed.

A non-true box server these days would only attract boxers, it's not like back on RF/LJ when everyone had to be stuck on the same server. You would just have a bunch of people selling the same service, and no one buying it. I suppose those who pay for their accounts the normal way would be fine. It would be interesting to see what a boxing server does to krono prices, as an experiment.