The over-use of charming

Again, Enchanters deal more damage with pets than if they had Wizard nukes instead, and Thorondor is arguing we should embrace the class as a tank. Not the first time he tried forcefully to argue Enchanter isn't a support class -- which it obviously is.

From the main site in Modern times: https://www.everquest.com/classes

"Enchanters are the most subtle of spell casters, with little focus on doing damage directly but tremendous impact on the world around them. Enchanters are primarily a magic-using class, with the ability to wear cloth armor and wield blunt weapons and daggers.

Enchanters specialize on improving the minds of their allies, with unmatched mana regeneration spells and mental enhancements. Haste spells are also the domain of the enchanter, providing incredible boots in attack speed for members of their group. Enchanters have many powers of illusion as well, allowing them to take the form of many different creatures and races."

They don't even mention charm, or "85% of the class" I've heard charm referred to on these forums. When charm was mentioned in the original write-ups for the game -- it was a sentence that used it as an example of how Enchanters can CC.

Then there is of course the overwhelming evidence to those of us that played old EQ that no one ever though of charm as a central part of the class. Enchanters are not a Tank, and they are not a damage class. Anyone who argues otherwise clearly has an agenda.

Seriously?
That is your argument?
Some simple write up intended for some one never having played the game?

Heheh man that is devotion to a lost argument that exceeds all rational expectations.

The argument is that they do too much damage and they do more damage than other dps classes (that aren't charming) as evidence.

Throndor is arguing that they decided classes like Enchanters and Necros are tanks now because they added to their durability over time. I'm pointing out Enchanters were not made to be tanks or damage dealers. And looking up the write ups for noobs over the course of 18 years shows they never once told anyone to play an Enchanter to deal damage.

The arguments over. Unless they redesign the entire evolution of the class, as it redirects from charmtank dps and CC to tank AttributableDPS and CC it doesn't matter. The class will not be relegated to a support only class without a comprehensive overhaul to the entire game. Even if these envious bastard succeed at getting a nerf to one aspect (the first 65 levels) It will never stop the enchanted from becoming a dps+tank+CC class anyways

Except in classic eq enchanters were the best dps class right out of launch with charm. It was actually 16.667% stronger in classic eq back 1999. You were just too naive to realize it.

Newbs are not told a lot of things.
Like how you can invest hundreds of hours in a class only to have the rug yanked out from under that char due to the devs listening to the incessant whining of the entitled.
Heh sign me up for that game oh yeah!!

Yeah they were, it is just understood now. Heck only took almost two decades, we are not a sharp lot it seems.

Throndor misleading again by failing to mention hardly anyone charmed than and it wasn't ready visible to most people. This what the clowns on p99 said about chardok "omg man its classic all the time" -- except for they didn't and they were FoS.

The only reason any of you that care about playing a strong class are playing anything but Enchanter -- is because the TLP verson of that class is way stronger than classic. Enchanters are by far the most powerful class on p99 overall. And they would have been common knowledge then if people charmed more often.

And charming is common knowledge now.

If anyone is going to argue to me that isn't a Enchanter is a support class -- the the noob section is where they belong imo.

Throndor's different. He actually think Enchanter is anything but a support class. He wouldn't even be here if rolled a different class.

No one charmed in groups or raids of course because there were other problems with pets in general and people had an aversion to them. The difference was all in their heads.
Enc charmed all the time doing solo and pairings.
What is different now is the attitude and knowledge, game is the same baring obvious changes that benefit everyone. Face it your beef is with the game as designed.

I have said in the past that charmed was overlooked for how powerful it was. You and me don't disagree that the game was designed this way or that its classic.

I just don't think that's a great reason to keep as is now that all the dynamic changed. Same with Necro and Druid Charm -- just a reminder to people I'm not trying to pick on a class -- just an OP ability in Classic-PoP or so.

Were going to be back here in 2 years -- or there is a good chance I will be at least. I just think it would be fun if next time it isn't 30% of the population rolling enchanters doing the same exact thing.

Heh and then there is the reality. The lovely reality of playing a class largely unrestrained from people like you with no imagination.
The man likes to play the class as designed and somehow this makes him the bad guy? wow

It's all good. I don't care if you're . I have dealt with resentment and envy for the past several years playing enchanter at the top of its ability.

I have a slew of haters from Fippy, and later TLPs because of the fact that I played better, and was smart enough to perceive what they were too dumb to realize was an option to their class instead of building my enchanter for manapool and focus only to get pasted in 1 or 2 rounds by a raid off-mob resisting CC like they were.

Do you realize how many raids we encountered along the progression arc where I generally outlived all of the rest of our enchanters and performed the classes raid responsibilities single handedly, because I had the foresight to see what the class could be instead of what it appeared to be?

I still get for it from so-called elite raiding chanters for it to this day. The fact of the matter remains, chanters are able to be effective tanks at pretty much everything current in the game throughout the progression arc. There are even threads on the live forums complaining about enchanters being too good at tanking at level 105.

I do not think many of these people read those forums.
or read at all...
Nothing but respect for your play on Enc, our differences stem from personalities, which is a shared fault I am sure.

last comment was directed at colorful caster, but yeah, I don't raid early TLP; the "gains" are just not enough to bother investing the time or schedule to, so any perception which would insinuate I'm with faceless crowd, frothingly competing for peanuts is misplaced with me. Velious or SoL are decent starting points for actually considering raiding again, but I probably won't bother raiding competitively again until DoDH since early game raid scripting is boring, and without a very specific set of all all drops to facilitate my gearing preference there's not much appeal in character progression before that.

To quote most of the people that ever did it much, "raiding sucks".
There is no fun factor in raiding outside maybe a handful of slots and even those get very tiresome. Done them all and not doing it again just for the sake of doing it. Yeah gear is nice but I chose my class(s) based on not needing a ton of gear.
Best way to ruin a good hobby is make a job out of it.

If 30% of the population were enchanters, I wouldn't have to let groups that want to keep grinding break up at 2am because there are no enchanters on to replace me after looking for a replacement for an hour, and I wouldn't get multiple tells in the first 5 minutes of tossing up an LFG tag when I log in because their group doesn't have an enchanter and manaregen is sloop slow without clarity. If even 16.666667% of the population were enchanters, there would be an enchanter for every group (be careful mileage will vary depending on if you get a namebrand chanter or not) and a group for every enchanter

Last I saw it was like 12% at launch and that always falls off when people find out playing an Enc is not all cake and pie as people like green_with_envy claim. If it is 10% or less now I would not be surprised.
I do remember people complaining at RF launch that mages while being pre-nerf powerful were boring as mud drying. At least we have not seen those threads for Enc.
Maybe thats the idea... make everything boring.

Yeah, we totally need more classes that can sleep through an exp grind afk, while pretending to play the game. We don't have enough classes available for that to fulfill all of the demand from a playerbase that, apparently, thinks that's how you play the game.

Seriously, I would roll a wizard again for better DPS in the group game, except for the fact it would probably sit on /LFG all day long due to the reputation that the class has earned from shitheads like those I was sarcastically referring to above

Wizards are still better DPS than a charmpet. Lightning Storm, Energy Storm, Lavastorm, and Frost Storm are ridiculously OP after being revamped. Lavastorm does more DPS and at lower DPM than circle of force on 4-mobs

With underperforming wizards on TLP, the problem is the playerbase. It's not that the class doesn't have the tools to Carry with DPS, its the fact that lazy- roll the class TO afk through groups for passive exp until they join a raiding guild, so it promotes this perception that enchanter pets are outdamaging them.

When I started researching spells on Agnarr, I attempted to provide the wizard playerbase with their research only rain spells and PBAOE but the spells just outright didn't sell, because the playerbase rolling wizard is too stupid and lazy to see the value or bother spending the plat.

Selling at a solid 25 to 33% below the market going rate for spells didn't help. Enchanter research only spells sold like hotcakes within minutes of posting each batch of spells that I created upon returning to origin, wizard spells are still sitting in my spellbank.

We used to have 12 Enchanters in Velious and now we raid with at most 4 mains on rare nights. That's not to say people don't have them as alts (which is all they will ever be if they get nerfed), but a strong argument that once they get out of the first few expansions, the shine starts to get a bit more dull. The class requires a lot of attention to be played well and most would rather not deal with it. Add the fact that raiding as an Enchanter is eye gouging boring. Every single one of these arguments about charm is initiated by a person playing on a new TLP that's in Classic. It's comical. Similar to going in a gym and telling a person they can't be there anymore because they lift more than you.