For me this has taken quite some investigation and testing in the arena, so here are my findings through research and parsing. SPA 162 Melee Guard (Either OR) Anything that has spa 162 wont stack with other skills with the SPA 162 in any slot, the normal rune mechanics take effect meaning the highest % absorption is used and not the highest total amount absorbed. The following SK relevant skills have SPA 162: Cleric Ward (Greater ward of vie etc) Doomscale Mantle Vizats Carapace Cascading Theft of Defense (proc from using terrors) Vizats Skin Diplomatic immunity Repellence (Repel skill) Armour of Experience Earth's Elemental Form SPA 55 Stoneskin (Cumulative) Basically these stack, you want as many of these on you as possible, they will all help you providing they don't contain SPA 162. The following SK Relevant skills have SPA 55: Blessed Rune (Normally a weapon proc) Brell's sacred stone balm (shawel proc) SPA 451 Melee Threshold Guard Only skill we have with this is Reavers Bargain which stacks with everything, it is the last item to be removed from any hit (Tested this skill with Dzarn during beta) Now, onto my recommendations for the raiding SK: Those skills marked red should never be used on raids (suggest blocking them), they will have a detrimental effect on hard hitting raid mobs. Let me give you an example: Raid boss hits for 45k with stance on You have doomscale mantle active (35% reduction in damage) and Vizats skin effect on you. Given vizats skin absorbs 5613 damage per hit MAX and is 100% absorption you would take 39387 points of damage. Without Vizats skin effect you would have taken 29250 points of damage.
Placeholder for updates. SPA 162 Tests No Buffs/Stance/No Disc Max Hit: 12092 Repellence/Stance/Doomscale Mantle Max hit: 1210 Calculated Max hit: 1209.2 = (12092-90%) This shows repellence is taking precedence over Doomscale, you now have 6 procs of repellence with a total absorption of ~35k, if in one hit 30k is used, then the next hit only removes 5k, giving you some nasty spike damage.
I want to see the parse showing that repel shouldn't be used. Your boast of don't use these abilities in raids seems rather lacking.
Added one of my simple parses above to demonstrate repellence flaws. Obviously you should make hotkeys to block/unblock and use appropriately, this stuff is still good to use when not discing.
Here is the relevant spell info per Lucy: max is the total damage limit of the effect before it fades base_x is limit to damage taken per hit Cleric Ward (Greater ward of vie etc) Slot Description 1: Mitigate Melee Damage by 10%, 45015 total max1 45015 base2_1: 0 SK Defensive: Unholy Guardian Discipline Slot Description 1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 36% 2: Decrease All Skills Damage Modifier by 60% 3: Decrease Chance to Critical Hit by 10% with All Skills 4: Add effect: Unholy Guardian Effect max1 0 (2 min duration) base2_1: -1 << not sure why this is a neg. number Doomscale Mantle 5: Mitigate Melee Damage by 35%, 1101900 total max5 1101900 base2_5: 0 Vizat's Carapace 5: Mitigate Melee Damage by 20%, 521700 total base2_5: 0 max5 521700 Armor of Experience Slot Description 3: Mitigate Melee Damage by 100%, 0 total base2_3: 0 Repellence (Repel skill) Slot Description 9: Mitigate Melee Damage by 90%, 32283 total (2-3 hits) max9 32283 base2_9: 0 -- does not show any base2 limit like others below (SKs get the full 90% up to 32283) -- 90% of a 45k hit = 4500 damage (less than the 32283 max). This is always good. --- The real issues are the following: Cascading Theft of Defense XII (proc from using terrors): Slot Description 8: Mitigate Melee Damage by 100%, 34000 total base2_8: 4600 max8 34000 -- 45k-(34000-4600=29400) = 11,000 + 29400 = 40400 damage or 9% mitigation -- 25k-4600 = 20,400 or 18.5% mitigation -- we chain cast terror to keep aggro, so this is hurting us under any defensive disc as it reads now unless something is missing here on how these all work (slot 3, 5, 6, 7, 8). Maybe how these stack? We can not turn off this AA, so blocking spell has to be done on super mean mobs based on this info. Vizat's Skin Slot Description 6: Mitigate Melee Damage by 100%, 0 total base2_6: 5091 -- does not have a max6 value -- 45k - 5091 = 11% mitigation -- 25K - 5091 = 20% mitigation (this is still decent up to a point) -- Same issue as above it looks when using Mantle, Carapace, Unholy Guardian Diplomatic immunity Slot Description 2: Mitigate Spell Damage by 25%, 50000 total 7: Mitigate Melee Damage by 25%, 50000 total base2_7: 5000 max7 50000 -- 45k - 5000 = 11% mitigation -- 25K - 5000 = 20% mitigation (this is still decent up to a point) -- Same issue as above it looks when using Mantle, Carapace, Unholy Guardian Earth's Elemental Form Slot Description 7: Mitigate Melee Damage by 5%, 84925 total base2_7: 215 max7 84925 --- this is really sad these days 215 base, still can snare some things and something to use when not under disc -- 45k - 215 = < 1% mitigation -- 25K - 215 = < 1% mitigation Anyhow here is a more detailed look at these defensive discs, AA, item, etc.
Carapace with Skin or Diplomatic clicky I still think in most instances is fine. Skin, the clickies, and Cascading Theft of Defense with Mantle or UG though is a bad thing to have running it looks. Cascading Theft of Defense XII (proc from using terrors): --- This AA troubles me the most as it does not reach the 20% mitigation like Skin does at a 25K hit level. Slot Description 8: Mitigate Melee Damage by 100%, 34000 total base2_8: 4600 (should at least match carapace 20% mitigation) -- looks like a neglected AA max8 34000 -- 45k-(34000-4600=29400) = 11,000 + 29400 = 40400 damage or 9% mitigation -- 25k-4600 = 20,400 or 18.5% mitigation Should be upgraded to about Skin level base2_x 5091 or changed to Absorb type rune EQ Resource: Vizat's Skin Slot 6:Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 5091 Cascading Theft of Defense XII Slot 8: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 4600, Total: 34000 Earth Elemental's Form Absorb Melee Damage: 5%, Max Per Hit: 215, Total: 84925 EQ Resource shows everything as Absorb vs Mitigation as shown on Lucy, so need to parse I guess to see which it really is. I will continue to use the "kitchen sink" till I see otherwise. Maybe just choice of words between the sites.
I see that now. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/how-defensive-abilities-work.230743/ Easier to see split on SPA 162 and 168 stuff. Absorb melee damage: SPA 162 Doomscale Mantle 35% Impudent Influence/Carapace 20% Vizat's Skin Diplomatic Immunity 25% (clicky) Cascading Theft of Defense XII Fabled Ball of Golem Clay 5% (clicky) - really <1% in current content -- everything in bold you don't really want running with Mantle then, and only vs some mobs that don't hit over 20-25k with Carapace. Increase melee mitigation: SPA 168 Defensive Proficiency 30% Unholy Guardian 36% Other: Reaver's Bargain 75%
Soul-Hewn Plate Breastplate This bp clicky is fast cast and will overwrite Skin and does not show as SPA 162. Easy way to take care of Skin at least, but Cascading Theft of Defense XII is still an issue. I will add this clicky to my use of Mantle as a hotbutton. Def. 35% /band Activate Tanking (1h+Shield) /timer 9000, /disc Doomscale Mantle /disc Repel /useitem 24 11 (Soul-Hewn Plate Breastplate) /rsay Tanking %T
Thanks for the input Wyvern, You presented what I was trying to get across in a great way. Cascading Theft definitely does not stack with either of our SPA 162 discs, I encourage others to test this too though. Its a problem I hope the SK community can work on getting fixed. Best fix would be to get it moved to SPA 55. In regard to the Repel skill, I see where you are coming from but it has multiple incoming hits before it dissipates over that entire 35k rune, this really means it could be great for the initial hit and lead to high spikes on the second hit (where it only has say 1k of the rune remaining). Anyway, I guess this one is up to the individual. Unfortunately I cannot edit my original post and change a few things where maybe I was a tad over zealous with my statements. On Trash most of these skills are fine, on > 25k hitters(with stance), start thinking about blocking some of these runes if you are using doomscale or carapace.
Here is another look at Repel: Repellence (Repel skill effect is renewed each time it triggers and fades after 2 or 3 hits) Slot Description 9: Mitigate Melee Damage by 90%, 32283 total (2-3 hits) max9 32283 base2_9: 0 -- does not show any base2 limit like others below (SKs get the full 90% up to 32283) -- 90% of a 45k hit = 4500 damage (less than the 32283 max). This is always good. Lets say you get hit 3 times for 45k each (Repellence would then fade after those 3 hits). It still only eats up (3 x 4500) = 13500 of the 32283 of the effect. So it will fade before it can produce a partial absorb type effect. So I can't see ever getting a partial mitigation/absorb off this effect. Mob would have to be hitting for like 108K+ per hit (don't think you need to worry about Repel at that point as you are a grease spot. Hehe. I don't think I am calculating this wrong, if I am then no clue how these work.
I don't follow your math. I might have worded something wrong above. Mitigate Melee Damage by 90% (ie you take 10%) It is 90% not 10% as you are saying. 10% of 45k is 4500.
Then don't look at cleric shining line or your be really confused. Shining line takes 10% off, repel takes 90 note the "or" and the word "maximum"; repel doesn't reapply; when threshold is reached the protection is gone, or 3 grey cons hit you for 100, protection is gone.
Presence of Fear is a instant option to remove Vizat's Skin when using Mantle. Def. 35% /band Activate Tanking (1h+Shield) /timer 9000, /disc Doomscale Mantle /disc Repel /rsay Tanking %T /alt act 865 (Presence of Fear) - removes Vizat's Skin to ensure best use of Mantle. -- side note on Repel: I see a new AA Enduring Reproval that makes Repel last up to 6 hits now but still not likely to be an issue (6 x 4500 damage) = 27000, so under max still. Pound that key at will!
Not sure where you keep getting that 4500 damage number from. Repel absorbs 90% of the hit, up to 32283 damage. so if a mob hits you for 45k without repel, it will hit you for 12717 with repel, and chew through the max in 1 hit. You'd never make it to 3 hits, let alone 6 hits. See Brudal's post above.
Repellence: interpretation issue found: wording from the 2 websites caused me to think something else was going on with the effects. What I pictured in my mind is not happening. 9: Mitigate Melee Damage by 90%, 32283 total - Lucy wording 9: Absorb Melee Damage: 90%, Total: 32283 - EQ Resource wording Repellence is directly applying 90% of the TOTAL incoming damage of a hit to the max. total (32283) until max. is reached then fades. Makes more sense in my mind now. Let's say you take 3 hits one for 20k each: 20k hit (2000 damage taken) - 18k ABSORBED (full 90%) 20k hit (5717 damage taken ) 14283 ABSORBED (remaining max. total used up, effect fades) 20k hit (full damage) -- Looks like it is still worth using. It might be better as SPA 55 and/or reduce the 90% to 40-50% to spread out the damage across the counters. Enduring Reproval AA looks to be completely useless then vs anything from last 3+ expansions then. It might be ok vs old trash mobs or something if you are pulling a bunch at a time.
Wouldn't it be even worse now with the aa extension? Or does it just fade after the dmg cap is reached meaning a possible one hit spike?
