I think I have just about had it...

Vote with your wallet and cancel all-access. DBG cares little about boxing or cheating. They need the krono sales to keep EQ going. Can't or won't box a mage army, then just walk away. There is no place on the TLPs for anyone that doesn't use 3rd party software. If you must play, play on live or test.

this extreme boxing/mage armies/asshattery, the scene in hate, the raid scene, and all the actual botters that bot for days farming, is why i'm finally considering leaving.

sure i will get banned forever with a chargeback since i always pay for a full year, but at this point? there is clearly nothing ever to return to.

I never said you stole camps and i don't believe you do, dominate them maybe but that's a different thing entirely. The named dps racing was referring to raiding as opposed to the group game and it's true i've not seen this, others in your guild with mage bots I have seen and from other posts elsewhere I assumed you ran them during raid burns, sorry for getting that wrong. However I have seen you try/succeed in training other raids on once occasion and other people i know well have seen you try this too so lets not pretend your whiter than white. However you need to understand that people who are camp stolen by mage bot armies are just going to assume that you're going to camp steal them as that's the experience they have had, as an advocate for large botting groups you should consider the escalation and what its doing to the server as a whole.

What I don't understand is why you choose to run 18 bots rather than grouping with other people in your very large guild and active guild?

I don't box, and I'm not against the boxing multiple chars or necessarily the 3rd party automation software. I do have to point out that part of the reason I like playing EQ is that it forces people to group up to actually accomplish a goal whether it's the experience grind, camping a quest item, or taking down a difficult mob to help others out.

There are plenty of other MMOs on the market that let you play solo from level 1 to max. I don't see the appeal of adding this one to the list. If you have to log into multiple groups of characters just because you don't want to make time for others, there are plenty of other games on the market that allow you be overpowered and kill anything and everything you want to kill by yourself. What's the point of even being here if you want to log in every day/night and just farm items or grind solo? You should probably just stick to console games.

What the heck are you talking about? I never, not a single time, trained a raid.

I understand why people are anxious about large boxers but it's not an excuse for poor behavior. Real world equivalent would be if a white kids stole your bike when you were five, you always held prejudice against white people and treated them poorly.

Boxers are controlled by individuals. It's these individuals who may be harassing you. Guns don't kill, people do.

Oops I missed this line. I don't only play with myself "giggity" I play with lots of people. I have a habit of tracking Everquest streamers down and hanging with them from time to time I'm also frequently on voice chat chatting with people while I play.

There are tons of reasons. First and foremost, EQ is simply not like any other MMO, I played tons of other MMOs, but at this time, I don't want to play another carbon copy MMO and absolutely don't want to play some garbage console game. There is a nostalgic pull but also EQ has that addictive quality that no one game has really been able to replicate, at least for me.

I box (alt-tab only) 3 toons so I can do meaningful group content on my own without spending the already limited time I have to play finding/forming a group. It is a cliche reasoning(and I'm NOT using this as an argument for raid instancing ), but I have a family/job/house/ etc and often times I can't devote multiple hours to participating in such a way. If there is a group saying "OOT gobs needs enchanter" and I bring my enchanter all the way out to gobbo isle and my wife comes in an needs me for something, I'm actually letting the group down and not carrying my weight if I have to afk a lot or worse, if I show up for 20 minutes and then have to leave and they have to find someone else.

As a 3-box group I can still enjoy the content the game has to offer on my own schedule without causing grief or monopolizing content or anything like that.

edit: I will add that not having to roll against anyone for items is an undeniable perk

Could not agree more. I've spent weeks getting my tradeskills up and making a decent stack of platinum. Whereas I could have bough that same stack of platinum in seconds by buying a few Krono that have the value of six Lattes at Starbucks. I respect Krono buyers' choice to do so, but myself, I just don't see the point in buying the "I Win" button in a video game. And it seems to be strongly contributing to the toxic environment on Ragefire, tbh.

Please delete this anti boxing thread mods. We have had enough of them already. There is absolutely nothing new that can be added here.

Frenzic has a point here, even though I admittedly don't like the boxing. It's all in how you use the ability. If you use it to gank the system, subvert game mechanics, take over camps, etc. then you'd be in the group of players. If not, and you more or less play the game as it was meant to be played, then you aren't, whether you're boxing a couple toons normally or a dozen with [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software]. Part of the problem is we have design flaws in the game, like over powered mage pets and the ability to /pet target mobs from across a zone and send them in to kill. You don't even have to be boxing to abuse this flaw and ruin an area for folks, i.e. runnyeye. They need to fix some elements in the game to address this. Not much we can do about people being pricks. They'll always be around. We just need dbg to be willing to deal with them when they try to do their stupid stuff in game.
-Myrabella

Please delete this thread we have had enough anti box threads.

I have been at Efreeti for days. Whenever anyone comes up, I am nicer than can be. Try killing people with kindness, they won't mess with you.

The meaner you are, the meaner they will be.

Either that, or they are afraid of my Title and Suffix, which is The Limitless :name: The Wrathful. Either way, try the first thing I said. You can always /guidehelp or send a guide a tell directly explaining what is going on.

It is kind of sad when you think about it, maybe less then a dozen people on this server 12 to 18 box characters, and of those only a few use them to camp steal, monopolize zones or disrupt gameplay the others just do it for Fun and are respectful of other players.

It's the disruptive people that we should be trying to get banned, but every boxer gets painted with the same brush to the point I often feel like apologizing to people I meet because I 4 box!

The problem is that if two out of 10 are , all you remeber is the " 12 boxer who stole your camp"

It's a logical fallacy because they are so rare you group them as one. No one would argue that all Monks are because a monk trained you once, but it's the same level of reasoning we use here...

For the record I've ran 2 accounts in the past (did it for several years in fact)...I do think upon honest reflection that it diminished(s) the experience of the game in some meaningful ways and the more it increases (the more people uses more boxes) the more the community suffers and EQ becomes something less than what it was. On the surface that may be fine for some people but I doubt it is a sign of long term game health.

I'm not simply being nostalgic/romantic about EQ's social aspect...I'm saying that EQ did thrive at it's high point because it offered a unique set of experiences that were more immersive and social than other games (I can't explain how it's better than WOW or AO...it just was). Anyway now I play a single account and enjoy more of the immersive experience and get more in touch with my avatar However the EQverse around me makes it a lot more difficult to take that experience very far at times...mostly because other supporting structures that used to promote that have decayed or been destroyed.

And before it's tossed out there, I don't hate someone for boxing. I don't hate a lot of things...but I can say some things have gone too far and need to be reigned in. Texting when driving for instance, or having animals in your yard (1-2 dogs is usually fine, but having 12-18 starts to be a real issue)...we have shows on TV about hoarders who start with a few things (no problem) and then grow it to a level of dysfunction where it hurts not only themselves, but also creates blight for those who live nearby. You can take too much vitamin C, you can drink too much water...when you take things to extremes you get unintended and negative consequences.

The MORE we box, the less the things that drew the majority of us to EQ are maintained. ..and when you combine that with very loose limits on trollish behavior...you end up with a system that no longer supports itself. That system decays and ultimately fails.

I would say that when we get to 6+ boxes we aren't "playin EQ". We're doing something else entirely. We're turning the game into an automated job of some sorts....we're engaging in something...but it isn't EQ as it's sold, designed, or envisioned. If the box armies or the trolls could engage in their behavior in a bubble (maybe special instances) not too many would care. But like the hoarder that lives next door who's house starts to become infested with rats...the issue ultimately migrates to the neighbors...and becomes a wider social problem. And enough people on the TLP servers have noted an impact to make a rational person consider the possibility that yes...there may be a problem.

That doesn't mean it's cheating. But it's not an intended "Feature" either. Again it's not cheating...it's poor rule conception and maintenance of a virtual world by DBG and a disruptive exercise of an unintended flaw. And then it's expanded upon by a minority population who don't really care if what they do undermines the health of the game or the experience of many other people...In some cases it's apathy and in other cases it's joy in annoying others...(If you aren't familiar with Delroy Paulhus or Philip Zimbardo you might discover some interesting connections to some behaviors you see online).

Regardless, we don't have to hate someone or someone's activity o still note that their behaviors are having larger negative impacts. And it doesn't have to be "Cheating" to be marked as disruptive, negative, or ultimately damaging to the health of the game or virtual world.

I think there needs to be a healthy discussion about what SHOULD change...and with an aim of preserving some longer term health of EQ. People can argue that it is to allow boxing, griefing, training, KSing, krono farming, or...the banning of any and all of those things. But the discussion needs to be had....We don't have to care about the game...or if it goes bankrupt..but why else would we be posting here?

Or... DBG can whistle in the dark, use EQ as a tax write-off, and sponge a few dollars a month off a dying game that no one cares about anymore. Some of us will hang on a bit longer to see how it turns out...mostly because no one has come up with something as good as what EQ used to be ...yet.

But while we shouldn't call things cheating when they aren't...we should also be honest about how some of those "individuals" exercising their rule loophole right to manage a box army do degrade the experience for many others.

And yes I realize I just wasted a lot of time writing this because I'm pretty sure only about 30 people actually read these boards so we are all part of a fairly circular firing squad at this point.

Salute!

Well, I am talking about boxing groups of toons, not just a 3 box where there might still be a legitimate risk of overpulling and death. Boxing a mage group or multiple groups of toons is really no different than soloing your way through WoW where mob difficulty is rare and all of the inconveniences of leveling are totally removed. I have no problems with people boxing. I was just saying I don't see the appeal of playing this game on easy mode, but to each their own. There have been thousands of single player RPGs made in the last 30 years, and soloing with 47 boxed mages sort of takes the one unique aspect of EQ and removes it entirely.

Also, I find most people to be pretty understanding if someone can't stay in a group for a long time. Most people playing this game have more real world responsibilities then they used to, and real life pops up more often than not. If I limited myself to grouping only when I could fit long grind sessions into my life, I'd still be level 20. When you just want to relax and play EQ, the sting of responsibility can be real.

Interestingly enough, not only are boxers "legit" players, but I promise you we deal with a lack of respect far more frequently than the average player. You may come into contact with a boxer who kill steals you once maybe twice a day. Boxers deal with being trained, kill stole, and generally disrespected verbally and otherwise all day long wherever we go. HELP US TO END THE BOXER DISCRIMINATION AND JOIN BLACKHEART CARTEL!

"The guide said it was fine, I don't know why people keep petitioning me and harassing me." /s indeed.

I just have to shake my head at the mindset of some of the players today.

You are one guy playing 18. There may be 18 individuals guys/gals wanting to play but your "one" is hogging the zones.

It's my hope that DBG's will alter the ruleset a tad bit to make boxing more reasonable. At least on TLP. I can see why it's OK on normal servers. TLP is a very small sandbox, and when one kid is hogging all the toys and taking up 3/4 of the box, it's not fun for anyone. Well except for that one kid.

1. Running multiple toons at once is NOT cheating. Regardless if you use multiple computers, alt+tab, macro keyboards, or ixboxer. These methods have been used for over a decade and will not change. Back before those keyboards and programs showed up and I was still boxing 6+ toons between multiple computers.

2. The people who are blind boxing haters seriously need to chill out. Please stop making general hate threads, this is called stereotyping. We understand you have had bad run in's with other boxers and even the occasional botter, but that doesn't mean you need to take it out on the ones that don't break rules.

3. Please stop saying boxing is cheating, it's not, so stop. Take 10-15 minutes out of your day and read about the difference between the 2 main 3rd party programs. You will see why ixboxer is allowed, and the other is not. As someone else mentioned, if the software didn't exist people can still box as many toons as they currently are due to macros/binds. It's not cheating it's assistance to help make things more efficient. We are still sitting at the computer pushing buttons making our toons do what we want to do.

4. There is a difference between boxing and botting PLEASE learn this. Stop calling every BOXER and BOTTER. There is a very big difference. Most are boxing, not botting.

5. When someone has a camp it should be respected. Even though SoE or DBG has never established "camps" in the rules, it's been common courtesy to respect someone when they have a camp that has been established by the players over the years. Just because you have a group of mages behind you doesn't mean you should be stealing camps from others. Players who see a group of mages camping something should respect what they are camping and find something else. Training, and dps racing is just being a , wait your turn or find something else to do until it's open.

6. Stop making threads about every single boxer you run into. It gets old very fast looking at the forums to see a dozen posts about the same thing. I get your trying to raise awareness that you are upset, we get it, but there is no reason to make all these threads about it. Find another boxing hate thread and comment there. Creating a new thread just means you are looking for attention, instead of trying to raise awareness about something.

7. Boxing has been around since the beginning. There have always been people who box large numbers of toons, back then it just used to be more difficult to accomplish it. With the changes that have been made over the years to speed up lvling on live it has damaged the ability for progression servers to be as difficult as it used to be the first time through. People realize this, and take advantage of it. This needs to be accepted, it won't change.

I'd say the number of threads is proportional to the overall feeling on "mega boxer" players.