Mass Suspensions

HOLLY,
about those achievements?
Now we need to be hackers to "be more strategic than the other guy"?

This is actually false, you can /target the raid mobs without third party software. You just have to time it right when they spawn and be near it, they aren't under the world or anything. They're literally directly in front of you when they spawn, just invisible. The invis fades once someone does something to it, it in no way implies that someone is using tracking software to use it. Why Holly claimed that the suspension wave was to catch botters/warpers is beyond me, because it has absolutely nothing to do with either of those.

You just can't F8 target them or visually see them. I also want to point out that this is their best attempt at catching people using any kind of "hacking" tools. This just means they literally have no idea how to track this software.

Wrong wrong wrong. Apok made the mobs visible 10+ times on 1 CT sock with TL around. They did it at Naggy and Inny on their own. There are videos and screenshots showing the mobs are visible. They were only initially not target-able, but once pulled and attacked they were visible to anyone and everyone.

I don't even know why people waste their time arguing on these forums. 0 sum

so, so much this. the open world "competition" is a breeding ground for hacks. its far more prevalent now than it was "back in the day" (the program in question, or similar, has been around for almost as long as eq has) and is impossible to escape if you raid on these servers.

once the server progresses to more instanced content, its much, much easier to limit your exposure to it by choosing who to raid with, and what their standards are for it. some guilds stay very open with their use of it on raids, others at least attempt to curtail it during official raids.

How is my analysis wrong?

If you know someone is going to break a rule, and you benefit from that rule being broken (no matter how small the advantage was)..you are guilty of breaking rules. You may not be guilty of breaking the same rule. The rule you broke may carry a lesser punishment, but you are still in the wrong.

I am pretty sure real life works this way as well. If I know someone is going to rob a bank, and then they give me items they stole from the bank..with my knowledge of where those items came from/how they were acquired..I am in the wrong.

I may have misunderstood the issue with the targeting, but it doesn't change my point.

From what I read, it seems clear that people assisted on a bugged (fake) mob after their guild mate targetted it using illegal programs.

I see no grounds for all the whining. You got caught, deal with it.

I'd suggest finding different guild mates, because more than just one of them knows they cheated. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to continue in their company.

Agree but to clarify my original post:
M-Q2 was not around for the first kills of Nagafen and Vox. I am unsure if Show-EQ was. But the second program was only a packet sniffer and was way less potent of a tool than the more active software has become. It is the former program that subjects most of the customers on this server to rampant abuse and unfair disadvantage. This, combined with all of the other abusive gameplay we already suffer from, is extremely discouraging and it simply does not need to be this way. It is beyond me why DBG would want to continue subjecting its customers to this kind of thing. It's even worse that this is the first action they have taken at all to directly combat what we have been telling them has been happening, since the release of the server.

The most loyal Everquest players should not have to be abused on a daily basis in order to see raid content on this server. That's the real atrocity here.

if you got busted move on or stop no need to come here and try to defend.
the folks who know whether ya do will understand, the folks who don't will never believe you.
risk vs reward.
if you were riding dirty, you knew the risks, if you wasn't and just benefiting from others riding dirty well you knew the risks as well.
i don't wanna hear you didn't know, we all been at this way too long not to, especially in raid guilds .

I do agree that the worst botters remained unpunished. I disagree with where to draw the line but to be honest you and I aren't so far off from a common ground on that issue. I respect that you don't want to see this server turn into Fippy - I don't either.

Correct and the players that were using it were fairly easy to identify based on their behavior when it comes to the planes for the most part, X warrior, monk, wizard zones into planes stands at zone in then either leaves or a raid force immediatly arrives on hand the same time the raid target conveniently appears on track. The use of that program has become pretty common in the endgame by at least a handful of players in most guilds, I hope that the recent suspensions come with a warning that bans and or character/guild deletions will follow, but I'm not holding my breath. At least DBG has a good idea of who's accounts to scrutinize more as a result.

It is more like the "innocent" people were the get-away drivers.

People on this board have been calling for mass bans for weeks. Now they get them, and they complain that they are caught.

People wanted mass banning, they got mass banning. Of course, everyone who is caught claims to be innocent, and a victim. But, you can't argue that botting is both rampant and shouldn't catch anyone.

No, the system appears to be working rather well. It's entirely reasonable that people continue to claim their innocence, even when they are caught red handed. It feels like they can overcome the burden of proof.

I hope that the burden of proof is held to a high standard by DBG.

For now. But when we start getting to where content can be completely blocked, both of these activities will cause tremendous harm to all of us. Then combine that with the platinum inflation that will remain unchecked and you have a recipe for disaster.

im not exactly sure when what program was around when, but i know someone who was warping during kunark. cheats have been around for a long time. but are far, far more common now than they were, completely agree there.

they keep saying they have really good tools to catch cheaters, but rarely do i see any actions taken. part of me thinks if they really banned everyone who cheated, it would be a substantial hit to their income.

i think some people would be shocked at just how easy it is to setup some of these hack programs nowadays. i am friends with some people that use it, even been guilded with some.

i try to limit my exposure to it during raids, and during my personal grouping i tell them to turn that off. most of them are fine with that. id also be lying if i said ive never grouped with someone who used it.

but if i took a hardline stance on blacklisting people who used some of the less intrusive hacks, my friends list would be alot slimmer.

id love to play in a hackfree everquest, but that is virtually impossible unless i bury my head in the sand.

No, we got mass suspensions. There is a difference.

sorry i disagree as well, they are going after raiders , raiders are supposedly the top players of server the best of the best , now add in cheating as a raider and well you got a whole nother kinda player , hacking on raids or pvp servers is just wrong that is where you are supposed to compete, some guy gathering bonechips? who cares if you wanna draw lines with completeness then guess we can go after multi questers or folks selling nodrop loot cause that wasn't intended and can go on and on and on .

Yup, given the opportunity for opportunity, people are quick to jump on board. But they will be rabidly against others who did it earlier or better. And they will be innocent of driving that car if they were caught. But if they aren't caught they want a fair shot at the loot.

It's sad, I wouldn't want to be wrongly caught, but they told us we are all corrupt, and mass bannings were needed. Now we get them, and they whine and complain for 20 pages.

Ha! Good point. Hardly something to complain about as bans, and considerably less with suspensions. I am still hoping the suspensions turn in to bans as the evidence is reviewed.

the bright side to all of this will at least be a discussion in guilds about using said programs and risking the entire raid being suspended. the downside is that it might only curb the programs use on raids and thats about it.