Mercs make me want to scream

First, let me start by saying that , in my opinion, mercs come in handy if you absolutely can't find a live player to fill the role. That being said, I'm absolutely at the end of my rope. Mercs seem to have completely taken over the role of clerics, dps and/or tanks in a group setting.

As a live cleric, getting groups outside of my guild and/or circle of friends since the advent of mercs is almost impossible. If I log in at an odd hour, or even during the day most times, the folks that I can occasionally find groups with aren't on thus making it almost impossible to find an xp/progression group because cycling through various cleric mercs is so easy.

So few seem to use the LFG tool anymore because they can just pop a merc to fill the role that, I've given up trying to use it to find or build groups. The addition of merc gear and AA's seems to have made it worse. It's just horrible.

Yes, I have 4 gold accounts and used to box them. Even when I was an active boxer, I still preferred to replace my boxes with live players. However, I was seriously injured and am no longer able to do box. Now, if I can't find a group for my cleric, I'll try on any of my 3 other toons... Usually with the same result.

The personal info is just to make my point that mercs have, for the most part, completely negated the need to socialize, expand your circle of possible group-mates and/or include live players in your adventures. Mercs have actually encouraged the anti-social mindset that used to be an extremely minute part of the EQ population.

Mercs nerfed the need for cooperative game play that used to be such a huge and attractive part of EQ.

Perhaps people know you're just not a very good Cleric?

- PC healers are better than merc healers, outside of the fact a player may ninja AFK or go linkdead, whereas a merc will not.
- Merc tanks are pathetic once you hit level 70-80 or so. My level 100 guy is almost worthless.
- Merc melee DPS are about as good as I am with DPS.
- Merc wizzies are $$$ however.

Keep in mind that a lot of these 'anti socials' are really just people who have family obligations and can't expect to be at their computer 100%, or even 75% of the time. The only point in which I won't replace a merc with a player, is if I know that I'm going to need to ninja afk a lot (cooking dinner, completing college assignments, etc). I make an active effort to get players into my groups when I feel like I can dedicate my time to the PC. I agree however that mercs really didn't need AAs and gear...but as Fenthen said, even maxxed out they still won't replace a healer.

I expect the next patch to help with cooperation/grouping potential. Give it a chance.

Merc cleric is totally pathetic compared to a real cleric. To use your words, merc clerics make me want to scream, they are so bad. Getting a real cleric means you can dump all merc clerics in the group (there are often more than 1 if the group wants to do something serious like HA, missions or camp a named) and get another dps player, or a wizzy merc.

Of course, merc is better if the real cleric likes to go afk a lot, or is annoying/dramatic, or doesn't pay attention, or is just bad (although it's hard to imagine how a real person can heal worse than a merc).

Some people just don't want to group. Not just with clerics, with anybody. There is a whole bunch of possible reasons for that totally unrelated to mercs.

Or maybe all groups in the area already have real healers. Clerics are not the only ones. Druids and shamans do just fine in group content, less healing compensated by slowing/atk debuffs.

Nobody uses the LFG tool. If you just sit LFG in the lobby - nobody will ever find you.

But either way, no need to blame merc clerics when a real one is unable to find a group.

The only thing I like about a merc over a real healer is the merc is pretty consistent in that you know what he's going to do and when usually, other than that I prefer a real healer.

Merc tanks suck in every aspect.

Mercs turned the group game into a: boxing - i only play when semi afk, don't call me anti social for it - anyone need me? ok screw it, i go box (1 minute passed) - crapfest.
The quality of today's "group" tasks reflects this.

Just for reference, people never really used the LFG tool. The only time it really got heavy use was during the height of the Monster Mission craze when level and skill with your class meant nothing. The rest of the time it was only moderately used. Though today it has significantly dropped in use; but personally I attribute it just as much to the general chat channels more so than to Mercs.

Mercs make life soo much more relaxing.. I love them and would never invite a real cleric or tank over a merc for several reasons (note that Im not talking about hard 100 content that actually requires one).

1. Mercs don't leech.
-Example #1: I invited an SK to do a lvl 95 Heroic Adventure.. What did the Sk do? He sat there on his stupid horse casting dumb DoTs on the mobs instead of tanking.. And when he did tank? he got LIT UP badly.. My 96 air pets took 1/3rd the damage he did. Yes I know he probably was undergeared, under AC, and under AA'd... basically lied to get into my group, in which I left as soon as we finished that 1 H.A.
-Example #2: I invited a beastlord to my group and I swea to god he stood there AFk every 3rd pull... I felt like he was SCAMMING my butt by leeching, I left rather quickly.

2. They don't AFK
-When I play EQ, I like to tab to the internet a lot ( play in Windowed mode since I 4box), and it seems that HALF the people I invite are tobacco addicts because they always have to go on breaks when I want to exp. Mercs are ready when I am.

3. Mercs know when I am pulling
-I pull on my terms, when I want, where I want. Mercs will always be ready. If my cleric or tank is alt-tabbed or AFK for just 10 seconds, that can mean life and death.. No thanks. If I need to go AFK to poo or something I dont need to hurry back. I never feel pressured to play constantly.

4. I run 2 mages, 1 bard, 1 shaman. This allows me to use a tank merc if content is easy, or my air pets if content is hard. But I can always use a cleric merc, supplemented with my shaman buffbot tossing in heal macros when bored. Basically, cleric merc heals just fine for most content, despite people saying how bad it is... it does just fine for me.

In the end, I will gain MUCH more AA, and play on my own terms, never have to wait for anybody, never have anybody wait for me, by using my Mercs and my box. Social aspect? Thats what /1 is for.

Mercs for Life.

It's not antisocial.. I just seen too many leechers and bad players that waste my time. Playing with myself (lol) is a lot more stress free for many of the reasons listed above.

I love my level 95 tank J5 merc for Grounds, can tank up to 5ish mobs. Rarely ever drops low. For harder content yeah merc tanks blow, but for mass killing light blues I love it, and I use it over my 96 air pets for 1 big reason: agro. With a merc tank, I can melee on my bard, and never have to worry about being out of melee range of a mob.. The merc tank will pull threat no problemo. So yeah it depends on content I'd say. With air pet = any PC in melee range pulls agro... so bard just sits there singin unless he wants to tank.

Yea thanks for jumping in, and proofing the people who say mercs were good for this game wrong.
EQ the new best single player game soon @tm

Actually, I used to use the LFG tool on a fairly regular basis to either join or form groups. Yes, I've been burned badly by crappy pick-up groups but, I prefer the social interaction of intelligent live players. I usually don't say much while we're actually killing stuff because typing cleric = dead group. However, I like to chat a bit when we need to med up. Getting to know the people behind the pixels has been my favorite part of EQ. No, I don't join general chat because of all the PL spam and flame-fests that I've seen in the past.

sorry but the whole reason I keep playing my "Sk" is because mercs suck for a lot of things just ask the ranger who was not set to puller and did awesome cc just to have tank merc go off after the mob he/she just flusterbolted.
or the cleric merc whom just decided to throw out that awesome complete heal as you are about to go down due to a few lucky hits off mobs.
however for better or worse they have there spots but I think sony did a awesome job on balancing them compared to real pc.
but as soon as you find folks wanting to pop mercs over giving you a group you got to look into what you might be doing to cause this.

It's kindda ironic that the two main reasons for ppl to use mercs over humans is that mercs don't go afk and that the player can go afk whenever they want... Now, I'm not attacking you, cause those are my reasons too.

Yes, PC clerics are better, but a well geared tank simply doesn't need better healing in the vast majority of content. Throw in merc AA's, there isn't big incentive to dump the cleric merc for a cleric I don't know in LFG tool (which is what OP was referring to.)

WHICH highlights the need for a better AFK system.

Perhaps make hte player a merc when they're afk.

Maybe make players disappear when they're AFK (read: feign death) and optionally not get experience. The other players could pop a merc to replace them and they don't have to mess with disband or re-inviting the AFKer.

Either way, hte game needs to be more flexible to allow group members to afk a lot.

I find this AFK problem to be big. I myself afk a lot and real players demand a lot more commitment. When I'm alone I can go at my own pace and do whatever I want. It's a hell of a lot more playable when you're solo.

Real players are more interesting to talk with and play with, it just requires more time commitment and restrictions. However, this more than likely is a consequence of this particular game, not necessarily MMORPGs in general. One general problem modern MMORPGs can have is how you might be doing a different quest than someone else and they don't combine well. Because different quests don't often combine well in some games, you're sometimes inclined to not group. But there's no rule in MMORPGs that says grouping with real players has to be difficult or counterproductive. It's a trait of the games. In EQ's case, the inconvenience of grouping with real players can cause us to be inclined to not group. If one were to examine each case where inconvenience emerges and figure out a way to make it less so than it'd probably make grouping more desirable

Years ago when I was thinking about a mercenary-like system, I imagined the mercenaries having a LOT more personality and also suffering from the same penalties as real players. HOwever, the way mercs have evolved is towards convenience. So rather than talking about stuff they don't say anything at all. And rather than proximity-aggroing a nearby monster, they don't proximity aggro. In any case, the convenience meter shot up like a rocket and everything else was thrown by the wayside.

(In regards to personality... I thought of the Jagged Alliance 2 mercenaries as the ideal balance of character and function, perhaps minus the personality conflicts that could happen. two mercs fighting doesn't work out well...)

I don't think the answer is to remove mercs or to make them less convenient, but by making grouping with real players more convenient. This will take some thought because if a game is too convenient you're not really playing it.

I'm not entirely sure about the AFK-->Merc system you suggested, but you bring up a good point. DPS can afk without completely halting their group, but pullers/healers/tanks CANNOT (Although I will bring up the point mentioned earlier about how infuriating it is for players to join your group and AFK in 90% of it...those are the kind of DPS that get noticed. Or if their mana/end bar NEVER moves). I thought it used to be that if you didn't deal X amount of damage to monster, you got reduced experience (I remember being afraid of this as a healer back in the day). I might just be thinking about the pet nerfs from forever ago.

The problem with your system as you suggested is that it can be abused in a lot of ways. It'll be abused by people who are trying to max out Slayer, people who join a group just for gear and not exp, etc. In the end I just really don't like the idea as it stands. If something could be implemented to compensate for every other quick AFK without potential for abuse in long-term situations I might be okay with it...but at the same time Mercs already compensate for this. I know it doesn't help folks like yourself and me to be motivated to group with others, but chances are without it we wouldn't be playing this game in the first place. Honestly one of the reasons I even play EQ is because it's pretty much the only game I can still be productive in even if I don't have time to grind xp (I can camp epic drops while cooking/doing whatever).

Sure a tank can skimp by with a merc cleric, but a real player cleric lets you Zerg through crap a merc would let you die on, allowing you to push your group overall harder.

I dump my cleric box all the time for random clerics/druids/shaman that are LFG, my cleric box is pushing 20k AA, even if they aren't all that great its nice to meet new people to play with.

If you don't need More healing then a merc can give... Try pulling more mobs.

Why is it that all these boards consist of is other players FORCING their play styles on other people. So what if some people like using mercs? Why is it your job to come on the forums and bash them?

I tested and retested my cleric merc to the maximum last night playing my 91 ench instead my cleric farming Oath of marr in Chapter for my warrior and bard for a good 4 hrs and I was surprised that he was able to kept the beat and dint even had to stop the waves one bit. I rarelly use my clerics merc and last I did was for PLing my ench and I figured that I would let them tanks and heals each others lol..

I usually use wiz mercs and in some case Melee DPS but rarelly as i dont like doing the extra work to chain pull and make sure they dont get the waves in the bottom. Onloy reason why i woudl use melee is that they follow on agro depending what i am doing like chapter mission 1 and switch to wiz once at the name.

If I was only playing one toon I would passive / rebalance them betwen each pull but doing it on 3 toon on top of everythign else is no thx. They kinda like nuking stuffs before they get to camp.

Haven't figured out how to set yourself to puller? and set someone other then the puller as main assist yet?