I was speaking with a Wizard today who suggested 1h+shield both auged with DD augs would out-DPS a 2h. While I am currently not raiding, I probably have enough leftover currency to buy a shield with the necessary Type 8 slot. I've already heard the "shield is better defense and a dead caster does no DPS" argument and discounted it. If you want to make that argument, please start your own thread. Also, because I don't currently raid, discussions of specific items won't likely apply to me as I may even have to drop back to an old shield to get the Type 8 slot, and I don't have access to raid-level 2h. I am an Enchanter if that matters.
Two hand weapons tend to have higher damage procs giving them a slight edge overall. However as a wizard the type of damage matters and our new 1h class weapon has a fire proc which can be to our advantage. That is the one case you can make as a wizard for using 1h over 2h if you are trying to maximize every last point of damage. Overall procs account for 3-4% of a wizard's DPS, so the difference between an ideal set-up and just randomly using what you have is probably >1%. Also, the caster shawl aug will lower DPS as it interferes with far better damage procs and provides only a disproportionate amount of mana in return.
The shawl proc is a sympathetic proc. Most sympathetic DD proc rates are approximately the following based on the number of procs in use: 1: 46% 2: 71% 3: 84% 4: 91% The shawl procs at a different rate, and that rate is variable based on the spell, but when used with a wizard's most common spells it works out to about 36% by itself. When the shawl is used with other DD procs you get the following proc rates for the DD augs: 1: 37% 2: 57% 3: 70% 4: ~75% The damage of the shawl proc is 500 (600), has numerous stacking issues, and is unaffected by any type of modification. For all effective purposes, this damage can be considered zero. What you are left with is the mana return of 200 (225.) [The following relates to the wizard class only] Now consider that the right set of 4 DD procs when used in conjunction with full burn mods will all hit for 15-18k damage. Going from a rate of 75% to 91% can be fairly significant. If you take a very short burn as an example where you are twincasting every spell over the duration, so lets say 16 casts (32 twincasted) you'll go from 24 procs to 29 procs. Those 5 procs account for <75,000 damage over roughly 60 seconds or about 1200 DPS simply for bagging the shawl. That rate of return diminishes over time, but remains decent as damage mods stay in place. Sadly even long term the benefit of the shawl is largely in question. There are short windows when mods are not available where a wizard could bandolier the shawl in and out, but those windows are small and for questionable gains.
Everything Kathylynn_Unity said is wrong. 1) The damage type does not matter really for anything as procs are not modded by focus effects outside of Fury, and as an Enchanter, you don't have Fury. 2) Sympathetic procs account for much, much, much less than 3% of DPS, for a Wizard, I don't know about an Enchanter though. It will be a little bit higher on a burn, but anyone who cares about a burn instead of the overall damage of the fight is Doing It Wrong. 3) The Shawl aug does not interfere with other procs, nor do they interfere with each other, that isn't how they work. Spell procs work in 2 rolls. First, the chance to proc for each are all added together, and a die is rolled to determine if you will proc -at all-. Then a second die is rolled to determine -which- proc will fire. This second roll is weighted by each individual proc. 4) Sympathetic procs are all variable rate. 5) The proc rates listed are all wrong. I'm betting they went to the Test server and parsed it without setting up a proper control, that is: stripping naked, resetting all AA to 0, and then putting back on a single, proc-mod-less, (epic is good), item with a proc aug. If they didn't do that than their numbers were skewed by other effects. Addendum to 5). There seems to be some voodoo going on with the proc rates. I know what they -should- be, but they are not that. Still not what was listed, but definitely not what they should be according to what I was told. Also, for the record, 2HB is >>> shield for survivability for casters. Staff Block is 2-3x the rate of Shield Block. Yes, when you get hit it will be for slightly more damage, but you will get hit much, much less.
Beimeith: So, 2h is generally more DPS for an Enchanter than 1h+shield when all three items are auged for damage?
I don't know, but as an Enchanter your concern should be less about dps and more about survivability.
The following are some examples of short duration fights illustrating the amount of damage I am getting from augments. I use three DD proc augments plus the wizard class weapon. I do not equip the shawl. For consistency I used our last four Luclin fights. 8/27/2013 Kathylyn -vs- Luclin: -- DMG: 8410632 -- DPS: 233629 -- Scaled: 233629 -- DirDmg: 8410632 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 61 -- Hits: 61 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 137879 -- Max hit: 441930 -- DMG to PC: 0 Augment and weapon proc damage was 348732 for 4.15% of my total damage. 9/1/2013 Kathylyn -vs- Luclin: -- DMG: 12166939 -- DPS: 190108 -- Scaled: 190108 -- DirDmg: 12166939 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 88 -- Hits: 88 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 138260 -- Max hit: 441930 -- DMG to PC: 0 Augment and weapon proc damage was 403590 for 3.32% of my total damage. 9/7/2013 Kathylyn -vs- Luclin: -- DMG: 10460013 -- DPS: 209200 -- Scaled: 209200 -- DirDmg: 10460013 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 83 -- Hits: 83 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 126024 -- Max hit: 441930 -- DMG to PC: 0 Augment and weapon proc damage was 427320 for 4.09% of my total damage. 9/12/2013 Kathylyn -vs- Luclin: -- DMG: 12316545 -- DPS: 212354 -- Scaled: 212354 -- DirDmg: 12316545 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 88 -- Hits: 88 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 139960 -- Max hit: 441930 -- DMG to PC: 0 Augment and weapon proc damage was 410520 for 3.33% of my total damage. These were all very short fights. I have several hundred more examples, all of which fall into the same range when the duration is less than 3 minutes. The next question is what happens when the duration increases. The following are my most recent 30 minute lesson of the devoted runs. This is done completely solo and usually without buffs aside from what I can cast myself or a cleric merc can provide. 9/16/2013 Kathylyn -vs- Combined: A newly formed shiverback: -- DMG: 92523221 -- DPS: 61971 -- Scaled: 61971 -- DirDmg: 90218669 -- DoT: 2302800 -- Hit: 1752 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 1628 -- Hits: 1628 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 56832 -- Max hit: 441870 -- DMG to PC: 43599 Augment and weapon proc damage was 3697670 for a total of 4.00% of my total damage. 9/15/2013 Kathylyn -vs- Combined: A newly formed black widow: -- DMG: 85397782 -- DPS: 57160 -- Scaled: 57160 -- DirDmg: 83240090 -- DoT: 2154600 -- Hit: 3092 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 1588 -- Hits: 1588 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 53776 -- Max hit: 441870 -- DMG to PC: 35200 Augment and weapon proc damage was 3450070 for a total of 4.04% of my total damage. 9/14/2013 Kathylyn -vs- Combined: A newly formed wraith: -- DMG: 90232468 -- DPS: 57693 -- Scaled: 57693 -- DirDmg: 88053608 -- DoT: 2177400 -- Hit: 1460 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 1598 -- Hits: 1598 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 56465 -- Max hit: 441870 -- DMG to PC: 40264 Augment and weapon proc damage was 3369280 for a total of 3.73% of my total damage. I have hundreds of similar parses as well that all follow the three above. The interesting thing is to graph the augment damage over time to see when and how it is working. Taking just the first of the these parses the damage came at interesting intervals. The first 16 minutes accounted for 2017340 damage. 16-20 minutes accounted for only 163871. 20-30 minutes accounted for 1516458 damage.
Short answer: Burn, yes. Biggest damage proc, highest spell damage is usually found on a 2hander compared to a stick + board in the same tier. Constant chain nuking, if you have a weapon with a sympathetic mana proc (and a spec evocation aug in it), it will help you go longer without taking breaks, because even with mana draw, second spire, robe, contortion/mind squall you can bleed out mana *just* nuking for a long period of time without OOC, since the mindblade line is such a big mana dump relatively (and most enchanters don't primary spec evocation, either). Scryer's and contortion helps, but it is actually possible in the current game to bleed yourself out and need to med if you try (and I'm sure you have), so the mana return procs win out over the slightly reduced damage of losing the sympathetic procs. One thing I will point out though, just in case you can get something with a more useful focus or whatever- if you can get The Rod of Favoritism from The Undefeated Blade, the proc on that is all of 30 points less than all of the raid 2handers in VoA EXCEPT Crescent Staff of the Shissar (I know it's Crecent, but damnit, it's a typo), because all of the others use corruption procs. Corruption are usually lower due to the lesser likelihood that they will be resisted. if the raid 2hander you're looking at is from VoA, the proc is actually equal strength to The Rod of Favoritism, and the raid 2hander has less spell damage. The biggest difference going from group, to raid, then, is having a slot you can stick another sympathetic proc in, instead of a spell damage aug (since group is a type 4 and type 7, instead of two type 8s).
That's all meaningless without knowing what spells you are casting, what order you are casting them in, what self/other mods you have running, and which procs you are using. It also assumes that you manually went through the entire log file to make sure the damage is correctly attributed to the procs since Gamparse won't do that for you.
If you want to parse that type of info, simply write a program that finds the proc messages (for example: "seared by flames" etc.) then saves the previous line of text. Then parse the new file. It is as simply as that. A quick browse over the new file will also catch any irregularities like if something in /ooc or a spell wearing off messages occurs at just that instant. There should be relatively few of these and those can then be corrected manually if desired.
Parsing in VoA beta when it was given to casters, and then again in RoF beta, comparing max ranks of shield block and staff block demonstrated that staff block has a much higher rate of fire than shield block, sadly. Beimeith will no doubt chime in with the actual parses at some point. You will get hit for higher amounts more often when you *are* hit, but you will be hit less often in total.
I no longer have those parses. Well, I do, but they are buried somewhere in my backup log folder and I just don't feel like digging them out right now.
By saying they do not have any effect on each other is making the statement that you can achieve a probability of 100% (or over.) If you add the individual proc rates you'll quickly exceed 100%. Yet when you test 3, 4, 5, 6, or even 7 procs at once you'll quickly find that you are not guaranteed a proc at all. Each one progressively takes you closer to 100%, but aside from rounding, you can never actually achieve it. In addition, saying they are then weighted is the same as saying they have an effect on one another. So which is it? You are saying they do not interfere and that they do interfere in the same statement. When I tested this, and several others tested at the same time so we could confer, our conclusions were all similar. Many of the tests were done over 10000+ casts to confirm proc rates. It becomes very apparent that the individual rates change when you go from any one proc to two procs to three procs and so on. The shawl included. This test can be performed very easily. A relatively good fit for the data comes from the following equations. They are certainly not perfect, but are a good starting point. P(A∪B)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A∩B) P(A∪B∪C)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A∩B) + P(C) - P(A∩B∩C) P(A∪B∪C∪D)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A∩B) + P(C) - P(A∩B∩C) + P(D) - P(A∩B∩C∩D) etc. etc. etc. I am more than welcome to review of my findings, but when you say "everything I said is wrong" and offer only speculation and claim it is "voodoo" really isn't contributing to the discussion.
Any proc that uses SPA 383 has a hard coded base chance to proc of 6%. (I believe it is 6%, I am not 100%, but preliminary tests all pointed to it). This is then modified by the base1 value of the proc spell. Sympathetics all have a base1 value of 100, the shawl has a base1 of 80. This is then further modified by the casting time of the spell that causes the proc to fire: If the base cast time of the spell is < 2.5 seconds, the value is .25. If the base cast time of the spell is > 2.5 and < 7, the value is .167 * (Cast Time - 1) If the base cast time of the spell is > 7, the value is Cast Time / 7 So, lets look at a single Sympathetic proc, and we will use Claw of Flamewing as the procing spell. The chance for Claw to proc a single sympathetic proc is: .06 (hardcoded base chance) * 100 (base1) / 10 (because you do) * .167 * (3-1) = .2004 = 20.04% chance. Now, if we add in a second Sympathetic proc and continue to use Claw of the Flamewing, we have 2 procs, both with a 20.04% chance, or a total of 40.08% chance. Now, to determine whether you will proc, and which proc will fire, the game rolls two separate dice. To determine whether you will proc AT ALL, the game rolls a die 1-100. If it hits 40.08 or less, you will proc -something-. To determine -which- proc will fire, the game rolls a second die 1-40.08. If it hits 1-20.04, the first proc will fire. If it hits 20.05 - 40.08, the second proc will fire. At no time does the second proc "block" the first proc from firing, but it does increase the overall chance of SOMETHING firing. Also, I am not sure how you would get more than 4 procs either? 1 on weapon, 2 augs, and shawl.
Zalifur Scale Belt Orb of the Crimson Bull Silver Dagger of Destruction Symp augs mostly/only from UF that fit in Range slot
This information is pretty good especially regarding cast time. The correlation between cast time is one of the critical variables and the above relationship describes it perfectly. While there is a discrepancy between overall final rates, until more consensus can be made about why they do not match, I'll simply ignore that factor for now. Using the above info with Ethereal Incand. (3.8 base cast time) you have: .06 * 100 / 10 *.167 * 2.8 = 28.06% This is where the problems begin even going with what I would say is less then the observed proc rate. If I have 4 DD procs equiped, in theory my proc rate would be 112.22%. The observed rate doesn't even go back to 100%. My total observed rate was 91-92% for any 1 of the 4 procs to fire. Now if you add in the shawl with the same 4 DD procs, you have 112.22% plus an additional 22.44% for a total of 134.66%. The total observed rate is 93-94% for any 1 of the 5 procs to fire. [More Data] Skipping ahead to all 7 procs the observed rate is still only 98% in total. Subsequently each proc makes up a smaller and smaller percentage of the total. Procs used (generally in this order for 1 handed applications) = 1) Possessed Dreadstone Evoker's Staff 2) Spirit of the Gorgon 3) Living Golem Heart 4) Sodkee's Sympathetic Stone 5) Shawl 6) Orb of the Crimson Bull 7) Zalifur's Belt. Procs used (generally in this order for 2 handed applications) = 1) Crecent Staff of the Shissar 2) Cracked Shard of Frozen Light 3) Tempest Magic 4-7) Same as 1 hand for the remaining. Some additional testing was done with only mana procing items, but the results remained within expected parameters.
Ethereal is 3.75 cast, making it 27.555% There is a good chance that procs are artificially limited. Melee procs are, that is it doesn't matter how many times they swing, they cannot proc more then X amount per minute. They still don't overwrite each other or prevent each other from procing.
