"Need Steel chars for Legends". This has started to happen

I'm actually pleased with seeing the sight of Steel and Hal Jordan in Legends. Running into groups made entirely of Bane became increasingly overdone. I'm sorry, but Steel is not as dramatically OP'd as this thread suggests. Jordan, Lex Luthor, Nightwing, Huntress, Bane and Catwoman, not an exhaustive list, are equally powerful in the right hands. The message boards are not intended to QQ for a nerf and the moderators have permitted such postings for far too long.

The only problem I have with Hal is that you can not stop that strafing run at all.. Once it starts it's going. I've tried stunning him with powers/combos and interrupting with everything I can.

He stops the animation but it comes down like an insta cast anyways. It's all manageable just annoying haha.

This is the same reason that Steel is OP;

You can't knock him out of the lighting move, and he sets those mines.

I encounter players that do absolutely nothing but those 2 powers, and win vs experienced players.
It's really pathetic, but effective.

That was just an example on how having "paid to win" cash shop items are not good for the balance. To say that everyone can buy it to "experience balanced PvP" is silly.
Lets make a less extreme example. How about ability to buy 151 dps weapons for 10$. Everyone who would not spend 10$ would be punished for it.
Can you still beat 151 dps people with your old t4 one. Sure. (as you can beat Steel)
Who is more likely to win when both players have same skill level, guy with better or worse gear?

So the only counter to Steel is something that is counter to everyone?
Oh, right, you can just between other 2 points.

Key is that you have 3 of those high damage powers.
Yes, DoTs do not stack in duration neither in stacks.
But if you have 3 easy to use abilities to dump power on, no matter what you are going to get a lot of damage.

The place where Steel becomes OP is that scenarios where Steel becomes less power efficient
(
1. 1 target is hit and only for initial damage with 0-4 DoT hits (target dies too fast ).
2. 1 target is hit and he blocks your initial damage and dies before DoT (compared to some other power being blocked).
3. You use Atom Smasher and you get grounded (early cancel).
)
are much less likely to happen than every other situation. As in every other situation he is more power efficient. Your numbers will not be as high as potential damage, but they will be higher than on other abilities.

And like i have mentioned before, in every other Steel thread. Damage is not the issue on most cases. Issue is that mine has no counter, so instead of 1 DoT you have 2 you can easily stack.
Damage was just thrown out to show, why something has to change ( i would prefer going with having a some kind a counter over strait damage % nerf).

Again, in your haste you've misinterpreted what I wrote to suit your own purposes. Clownsanity isn't the 'only' tactic, he's just one of several that could be gleaned by anyone with enough imagination from the very broad sentence I wrote suggesting 'tactics' and/or 'strategy'. You laser focus in on something and run with it (to your detriment). I'm not going to continue to waste time and energy on this; clearly, your mind is made up and of course, you can't possibly be wrong about anything.

This isn't Pay To Win. Never has been. It's Pay For the Opportunity to Win. There's a difference. Let me ask you this: If Steel was a Legends character who had the same abilities, but cost 250 Marks of Legend, instead of $9.99, would you care? Let's say Darkseid was a Legends character and cost 1000 Marks of Legend, and he was significantly more powerful than any other Legends character, would you care? I just don't get your issues - Top Tier gear costs more marks and is better. Should be the same for Legends IMO.

I've never seen so much crying about something so relatively trivial. I see you're using Steel for the time being, so good on you.

This. The "mine move" should be vulnerable to interrupt and the lightning move should be vulnerable to stuns. If not, players should get immune to the knockbacks and stuns after being subject to it the first time.

I've come across those players as well. It is very annoying. Nevertheless, it is a tactic that is currently present in the game.

Then enlighten me and tell me them all mighty tactics that would make Steel less useful than any other character at the same situation and what player with the Steel can't easily avoid.

Focus fire -> 4 second of protection with damage shield. You survive as good or better than any other character under it. Also amount of damage you can push out while being under focus fire is high, as people get stacked up.
Constant stuns to make him waste powers -> works similar against any other character, while Steel stays more efficient with power he has left.
Split him from the team to 1v1 to make him least useful to the opponents team. -> a tactic to deal with him, but again something Steel can mostly avoid / not something that makes him balanced.

So what is that all mighty tactic that wrecks Steels and punish them who use him.

I have had trouble with maybe about top 5% of steel players i have met on my Two-Face.
At the same it shows, that while they have to make 2-4 mistakes to die, 1-2 for me is probably enough.

Yes and yes. Because i want game to be as balanced as possible in general. It does not matter if it is bought buy cash or not. Having cash bought abilities / characters / items which make you stronger however is usually bigger of the 2 evils, just because major part of f2p community does not spend much money on the game.
So when you have cash based items like that, average balance between playerbase becomes bigger than when there is something you can grind for.

Now to start out with, having different tiers of gear for PvP is already bad IMO.
It just makes gap between good and bad players even bigger.
(But that has been a part of MMORPGs for ever and a lot of companies will not give up on this, as its safe way to go).

Now when it comes to legends is different though even on that context.
You can gain your t4 on any build and character you run on your premade team (so 1 max geared build will be somewhat on par with other max geared build).
On Legends bases one character is just strait forward better than other, and there is no way to "update" old characters with marks / purchases to "push them at the same level".

Oh no, i have been wrong in many situations as well as i change my opinion about stuff on constant bases, when i get new information or good valid points thrown at me. On that case i always reconsider my though on the subject.
And no where, ever, have i said "you are wrong!". I'm also not saying that everything that comes from my mouth is golden and the "the truth".
But i do clearly disagree with your opinions on this case.
And at the end you haven't given me a single reason to change my opinion on that case.

Oh, yes... you have no idea how happy i am. #sarchasm

Talve,

Your mind is made up about how you want to experience this game. You disagree with some of the basic fundamentals inherent in the game, it's mechanics, and how's it's played. In that respect, I'd say you either change your philosophy or find a new game. The fact that I can't convince you to change your opinion on anything is your issue - not mine. The game is the way it is. It's puzzling and entertaining to see the effort you go to to back up your 'opinions' (which are no less or more valid than mine). You want everyone to have the same thing and for everything to be balance and for 'skill' to be the one determining factor in playing this game. It is not and will probably never be the case. MMO's are designed to reward effort and while this game has made time/money a similar currency with respect to replay badges and by offering items for sale in the Marketplace, the overwhelming majority of the content is designed to reward a player for hard work. Balance may be your priority, but it isn't everyone's.

And I'm not going to give away my precious Legends tactics and strategy - nice try though!

Love the while bosting statements of "I won't play as Steel until they nerf him" comments. Seen Steels get beat downs from people playing Robins and Harleys, and I tend to beat more than I lose to when I play as Ursa. Sometimes I think people just see people scream OP and they jump on the band wagon, both playing as, and complaining about. Personally I suck at using Steel, which figures he would be considered the easiest to use, just to make me look worse.

Most calling for a Steel nerf have their heads stuck in the numbers, which at best are a potential statistical representation of a character's inherent ability. They discount everything else - player, map, teammates, strategy, tactics, etc. They want balance - on paper. Truth is, as long as players are behind the character, there won't be any kind of true balance (and who wants that anyway - this is an MMO, not Tekken....).

Here is what I said at the beginning of this thread:

No numbers (except cooldown time), just how his power mechanics work

I find is amusing, that Legends is the only place where the same powers/people do not cancel out each others damage.

What Tha Dillio???

While this is true of Arenas (and now Legends unfortunately) I very much like the idea of two separate pvp venues, as it used to be. Steel, no matter how much elitists and "skilled players" say they can beat him, is OP. There was a post on another thread, with a video, that pretty much proved that point, imo. I'd be happy to link.

Legends should be a fair and equal battleground to showcase a players SKILL, as it used to be. Arenas can stay as they are, zoo fests they may be.

People who say "I suck at legends because the loadouts suck, I need my toons loadout to win" are just bad. If you cannot perform well in legends, you are simply not good at the main pvp mechanics, plain and simple. I could not give half of a rats *** if I rustled some jimmies with that statement.

Last point, the argument that most players playing steel suck so it's ok if he's unbalanced is REALLY laughable. Thank god you guys are not in game development. Yes, you can beat steel sometimes, I can beat steel sometimes. That's not the point. It's when two players of equal skill meet. That's when Steels unbalanced cooldowns, high damage and survivability become very evident.

Did someone crunch the numbers? 'Cause I'd like to see it. I'd like to see the potential statistical representation of Steel's inherent ability. Numbers are potential (statistical? well *****, duh!) representation? Wha..? Numbers don't lie kid. Unless you're solving for x. What does map have anything to do with winning against Steel? Winning matches sure, but everyone here are talking about his mechanic/loadout and how something is off. MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online, Tekken's obviously multiplayer and can be played online, it's just not massive. So what does massive have anything to do with balance? Stop trying to sound smart - on paper.

OMG, I was just in a batcave 2v2 match, and we got the enemy down to like 500, and one of the players dropped. Go figure, in comes steel. Steel then proceeded to outdamage everybody in the game. I had 47,000 he had 51,000. He was there for literally half the time. This wouldn't bother me so much if A) He did anything other than call lightning and pop a shield or B) was beating me in hand to hand.

That is pretty well how I guage skill. If they knock me down regularly with well timed blocks or blockbreakers, they are better than I am. I knocked him down probably 3:1, and he still outdamaged me in half the time. That's what is so agravating about steel. I was going to buy him, until i realised how stupid he is, now I am just sooooo sick of seeing steel teams that he is the last thing I want to add to my collection.

The is no counter to that thunder move. Nothing. Even if you make it interruptable it would balance everything out. just a little tweek like that. Make it so that if he takes three to four hits he falls down if you want, just give us some sort of counter to that.

Not trying to sound smart. What it means is that the numbers aren't actual unless they hit. Numbers are numbers; it's the interpretation here that is off and necessary when trying to look at this issue as a whole. Less name calling and more tracking from you would help you see this. MMO's imply progression and thus inherent imbalance. Why should that be any different in Legends? Should Knights of the Round Table hit the same as Ifrit?

I agree he's OP but the atom Splitter i counter like this and it works well:
block the initial cast- no stun then the swoop attack every flyer has(I use power girl) or whirlwind attack or Banes knockback power and Steel is on his behind not doin no fancy lightening. Only legend I have to do such a thing tho lol.

MMO's imply alot of things. And it should be pretty obvious that the most obvious implication would be the ones understood whenever someone says a generic argument such as: this is mmo not such and such. Games in general are all about progression. and no, you dont progress in legends, u earn marks. Im not even gonna argue with you about statistics "bro," for you clearly know your stuff. So keep posting on this thread like a champ.

This is MMO, not a single player RPG.

im gonna try this with batman's lunge power. hopefully it works with that as well.

Erm...

Because like you just said. Those aspect can't be balanced.

And that's why you balance through numbers, because that is something developers actually can do.

If game is perfectly balanced in numbers, then everything else will balance itself out.
If game is broken when it comes to numbers, then everything else is somewhat hindered by it.

Steel can make 100% of hes Atom Smashers invulnerable to stuns / knockbacks.
Only thing that works no matter what a Steel player does, is grounding effect.