New raid structure for difficulty and rewards

So lock the story behind elite? Sounds like gatekeeping to me.

To those that usually dont play elite raids its a big difference if they have make a group for a whole raid or just get lucky and got into a group that just happens to be willing to give it a try for one additional boss.

Again, those that usually dont play elite dont plan to start their episode experience with an elite raid but simply go for the completion of the intro mission. Then they are lootlocked and the amount of players that then actually go ahead and reset, trying to beat elite is smaller than the 1% of top players in the game.
Yes, you will have to do some bosses without loot in a follow-up run, but they're done fast because they're on normal difficulty. Or you could already reset for a full N raid worth of marks until you get to your desired location. The renown can be earned through duo, solo or alert already. It may not be as fast as before but running a raid to only beat one boss intentionally to farm renown isnt how the whole system was intended to work in the first place. Also, it allows for a much greater reward of renown at once, making it feel more rewarding upon beating the elite boss.

I appreciate your feedback and will keep trying to continue improving upon it.

In #23 i posted an updated version where that isnt the case anymore. Sadly i cant edit the initial post anymore.

Points shared here are exactly why I decided to chill and read other commenters (not to mention why I joined the forums to begin with). The second I read the goals and the suggested "pros" I thought, Ok, didn't really know about that issue but hey, maybe something like this could get players closer and so forth. I'm still not convinced it couldn't but I certainly believe it won't in its current form if even half the characterizations and values of the playerbase presented here are realistic.

Personally, my only major concerns are things I'm pretty sure could run players off. Examples: the potential awkwardness of "this ain't it for e+" walkouts of superplayers, the "walk of shame" exits of the dpses getting doubled, people who'll immediately call the developers cheap and lazy for combining raid levels before they install, and the target demo of success stories who bravely began conquering e+ hoping for special drops only to find out nope, DCUO still reserves most of the cool stuff for bundles and caps these days and feel suckered.

That said, I learned about other possible issues as well thanks to all commenters. Best wishes and I'll be reading

This whole thread is about how Elite and Elite+ don't mean anything. You are a casual player and you always have been - I'm not saying that as an insult, there's nothing wrong with that.. until you decide to leverage these silly titles to make a point.
You're also twisting facts based on what I persume were personal experiences - Origin Crisis drove casuals away?
I want to see the statistics. Because I played exclusively on the USPC server at the time and I saw something very different.
For the first time I saw the massive PvP community (at the time) play PvE because it actually was fun. Idk what it was like on the PS, but on the PC server Origin Crisis was a huge success in pretty much any metric that is available for the players to see. There's a reason it stuck as the prime example for good design in this game.

Instead of treating the community of this game like they are special needs children, content should be designed in way that gives incentive to progress, not just gear-wise, but the know-how too. The only difference between a good player and a bad one is the knowledge and the ability to translate it into action. The action itself is just repetition so that's simple.. the huge issue is the knowledge which isn't readily available to anyone.. If we had an ingame menu that would show players ideal builds (maybe ranked by votes) for each powerset and movement, had a small video window showing the rotation.. or anything similar.
Show people from the get go that even the most "difficult" content is possible if you know what to do, Instead of dumb things down for the ignorant. And before anyone jumps and says this is a major development cost - It could literally just be an API.

There's a reason anyone you talk to in-game makes fun of the people on the forums, no one here represents the community they claim to be a part of, especially not casual players which are mostly unaware of the existence of most game functions, let alone the forums.

How about we start teaching people how to fish instead of making the ocean smaller and smaller and the fish dumber and dumber?
Because we're running out of ocean and the fish stopped swimming a long time ago.

I was playing on exactly the same server as you were USPC, I have been playing this game since launch and I watched the players leave first hand during Origin Crisis. I was one of the fortunate players who was in a league with players who were getting EO's done, I got all of it when relevant, but that doesn't mean I didn't also see the negative consequences of the ramped up difficulty and other things that came along with that DLC.

Many, Many people will tell you, I believe it was even Spytle that mentioned or discussed at times some of the mistakes of Origin Crisis.

As for the rest of your post about design, I'm not really sure what your point is with respect to anything I've said in this thread? Are you simply upset that I didn't agree with ramping up difficulty?

I'm sorry you find the game too easy, but hey ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I started playing on Death and Glory and I only have 497 SP today, the SP argument is a part of exactly what I'm talking about.. why would a non-casual player even bother with SP when it is meaningless? It mainly touches with completionists and has nothing to do with difficulty of content.

I'm not trying to assasinate anything.. I'm bothered by how it's always the same people on the forums saying the same things and actively contributing to how stale the game has become. I know how little the Devs actually listen so I can't blame you or anyone here, but why join in on that wagon when it's already so broken? Stop shutting people down when they ask for progress! ESPECIALLY with arguments that portray you as a representitive of casual players.

If the metaphor before was fishing, Spytle is the guy kicking rocks on the beach - if your argument is his personal views I am sad to say I am not convinced. Would love to see some statistics.

{I guess you caught my post before I edited it, I did remove parts because I really didn't want to derail the conversation with talk about ourselves - but nevertheless}

My point was, my characters progression would seem to contradict your remark that "I am a casual player and always have been", your statement simply isn't backed up by anything factual and you seem to have a strange view on what makes a player casual.

I get that you're passionate about the topic and that is fair enough and no one is actually here shutting anyone down, we're having a conversation about the idea, the merits and flaws of it and I'm certainly not the only one disagreeing with it.

For what its worth I think some of the structure is good, but other parts of it just simply aren't, I just can't get on board with seperate bosses for example or exclusive bosses and even the revised plan still seemed to have those.

I don't say any of this to shut down the OP, he's clearly put in effort and I've said several times I appreciate that. However, it's said because the OP has asked for discussion, He seems to want input both positive and negative and personally I think most interactions, despite some disagreements, myself and the OP have got along in this thread.

It doesn't have to be what Strichy suggested.. just stop commenting "from authority" as if you know what casual players by and large want when they don't even know what they are doing. There's a reason I am passionate with my response - I've been here from the start and ever since a very specific group of forum ppl sprouted here, it's an echo-chamber of sarcastic defeatism. I see things on the ground very differently then what you apparently do - and I think it's evident we need guidance in the game and not the adjustment of the game to the guideless.

I'm sorry for blasting you when it seems disconnected to the actual proposition of the thread, but please understand, if someone checks the forums all they see is this mindset and the same couple of people spewing the same nonsense over and over every time someone suggests content should be more difficult, or at the very least as difficult as it was originally.. How about we find a way to facilitate progress instead of shut down the idea completely?

Appreciate the apology for blasting me , It's not that I'm trying to comment "from authority" it's just that I interact with a large scope of player type so feel I have at least some understanding, that was all.

I think however, sometimes people also knee jerk when I say content shouldn't be "more difficult" either, we all of course have a subjective view of difficulty I just think there's also such a thing as too hard and I think sometimes some content in this game has been too hard and in the opposite fashion some has equally been too easy (it's all a bit subjective though), there's always been a group of players unhappy with difficulty settings though.

In terms of progressing the idea, (if I've somehow read the idea wrong, let me know) I'm not sure it works when the heart of it still centers around an exclusive boss fight in elite and elite+.

My problem is basically this right, let's say you have a Superman DLC and you go along that raid design and we have 4 bosses.

1st Boss - Lex Luthor (event, normal, elite, elite+)
2nd Boss - Bizzaro (event, normal, elite, elite+)
3rd Boss - Metallo (elite, elite+)
4th Boss - Mind Controlled Superman (elite+) + rare drop

At that point you've basically taken the experience of Metallo and Superman away from all normal users and said only elite players will get to experience this boss content, I understand what you're trying to achieve in laying down the carrot, you're basically saying that "hey if you try to get better, you're going to get to experience this extra content" and that desire to experience the extra content motivates players to get better.

Now on a theoretical level I agree with that sentiment, unfortunately it doesn't usually play out like that in reality, I think for some it works, it definitely does, but then you've got that other crowd that are never going to be good enough, they're going to look at that content, especially if this was an ongoing pattern structure and just get angry that they can't play parts of the game locked behind a skill wall they're never good enough to break through.

Even with Paradox actually for example you didn't have that, all players got to experience every boss, at least separated, the only skill distinction was whether they wanted them take them on together effectively out in the center, but they weren't robbed of the actual experience. The same could be said of Ultimate Soldier.

I think you'd perhaps have less kick back if you introduced a distinction with the boss or even introduced a secondary boss that might suit the narrative, for example in elite+ you have to fight Mind Controlled Superman and Krypto together. In a circumstance like that you're still going to get some negative feedback about adding something extra but it's far harder to argue against that than it is to argue against locking out the additional experience entirely.

This probably sounds similar to the existing model, but at the moment the existing model tends to only include additional mechanics, not typically additional bosses.

I think this layout may make people think a bit biased, as Mind Controlled Superman isn't an extra boss but a final boss.
Bizarro and superman would change spots in your list and then you have already way less people that care about it.

I can't think of a way that would still keep the development process short enough to opt for this idea and also cater to the main concern of players missing out on bosses in the raid.

However, what if the two extra bosses were released in a slightly altered version as open-world bosses for the 2nd bonus week release? (altered to make them enjoyable open-world bosses)
That way anyone can still experience the core aspect of the bosses without missing out on them entirely during that same episode.

It wouldn't create a difference in dev-time while also including everyone, even those that only play event difficulty.
Then, the only possible bad aspect is the "bad taste in the mouth of disbanding", brought up by DeitySupreme.

This is something people will get used to I think. It works in other games and I don't see why it shouldn't work here. The main reason disbands feel bad is the fact you have to run the whole instance again just to get the loot you couldn't get before, which is something nobody should expect when going in that instance without a pre-made group that communicated this before.

Thoughts?

anyone claiming something else about OC dlc then what mepps said shouldnt be taken seriously because not accepting facts from the devs is straight up trolling.

Down below is the statement about OC by mepps.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...-change-discussion.316326/page-6#post-4411623

Queue into Raid, once in.. you are given every marks/reown to get the DLC's gear.

Raid over.

Who says no?

Its funny seeing you make this comment as you have, on multiple occasions, tried twisting dev comments to suit your views.

maybe you lack the ability to read because if you did you wouldnt have wrote what you just did but as always go through the forum and spread your nonsense comments like you do all day.

I must have imagined you misrepresenting what mepps said every time you tried to whine about swapping. Trying to use his post to back your claims on the subject.

Deitrysupreme either talk about what this comment was about or stop writing nonsense like you do on every single thread on every single topic.

Feel free once again to explain how OC really was based on Facts and numbers if you have them since you seem to completly ignore facts made by a developer do you feel superior to a developer or why to you is a developer saying a episode did tremendously somehow twisting words?

Lol. I was just commenting on the irony of you wanting to use dev posts as facts when you twist what devs say to fit your agendas and then when they don’t line up with your agenda you try to reject them. That’s all.

So can’t really take you serious when you try to bring up dev posts lol

Like you did during EoG comments? ;p

Back to the topic, its obvious you have no data/proof about OC and how that episode did.