New raid structure for difficulty and rewards

It's sort of designed with the intent of disbanding if you don't want to continue. The rewards after the 1st boss are the same as a normal raid that would usually be randomly queued.

For serious elite and elite+ attempts, LFG chat will always be the way to go. But at least those players may consider challenging themselves again/or for the first time by attempting the final boss.

The improvements on the player end are far less than the ones on the dev end, but this could also improve the overall quality or depth we could get in a raid or even other instances such as alerts or even a duo and a solo in an episode release.

Most people who stuck to the game are burnt out on the current episode structure. So this could potentially help in that regard too.

I just read it again and am i getting this right? You would put final and extra boss with normal difficulty in the initial event queue?

That would work, but is too confusing as you'd have the same instance with 2 different loot pools for a regular run.

Also, event will eventually be phased out and deleted, so this wouldnt work unless it would stay forever.

Correct me please if i got that wrong.

Due to feedback both here and in private messages, i tried to get rid of the points brought up the most.

The structure changed and the Pro/Con list also changed a little bit.




Please let me know if this changes your opinions about this topic either way.

Rewards in a game is everything. This includes styles, gear, story, etc. FOMO encompasses all of it. You can't exclude it when looking at this system.

It is what it is. You can think I'm being unreasonable in what I'm saying, but you would be surprised what unobtainable rewards does to players morale.

The idea for an instance that does get harder the further you get does sound cool, perhaps not like it was suggested, but since it's all hypothetical thoughts and ideas... Heck even if they made a Survival Mode that isn't an arena but long instance like Fractured God Sphere, or after bosses you teleport to another place like DWF. Basically a STU Survival Mode, after each boss a portal to next area/boss with increased difficulty. Just an interesting thought. Would certainly shake up the norm.

I usually agree with you on stuff but this time I don’t.

This feels very “elititst” which I don’t think that is your intention, however the notion of a group who can’t beat elite content, doesn’t get to fight and see the final boss can come across bery elitist mind set… “since you’re not good you don’t get to finish it”.

I get how you structured the marks no one’s losing anything, but this just seems a bit unfair

Edit I just saw there was a page two where you revised it

As long as people got a sense that was the final boss I’m fine with it.

But honestly they just need to keep elite players with elite players I feel.

100% respectfully, am I missing the part where the structure only drops untradable rare loot? If not, we're basically just talking about the Mordu supply drop, Dark Robins, Manbat hench, UM cape, T-3 father box and other T-3 pets, and I'm probably missing a couple. They're rewarded to players willing to fight for the drop, and can be attained by anyone afterwards if the owner so chooses.

What we are running into now vs the old system is that normal content is extremely easy to beat....even more so than it was before the entire elite system was originated in the first place. The chances of beating normal content behind a "blind que" was remote back then forcing groups of players to partake in the actual building of groups...etc. Back then, if you beat the raid, it was an accomplishment. Now enter elite and elite + where if you don't run a specific setup, run and swap specific artifacts, the content can and does punish you for that....That in itself isn't "elite" but moreso geared to a form of progession that I feel is beyond the intent regarding progression itself. Most of this is the community's fault for wanting to create a divide between people who play casually and those who have an elitist way of thinking. The kicker is, those people who wanted "elite" to create that divide don't even play the game anymore, or play casually now.

Big facts. I'd assume it'd be no problem for league runs and friend groups but the after final boss/extra boss1 transitions would really matter in a raid setting for any sort of random pick up group that was actually formed. Could get awkward in a potentially toxic way imho

I really wouldn't mind if instance mechanics became more necessary to complete in Normal runs. I did the JLD duo this morning, and my "partner" didn't bother with the "Distract Teekl" bit whenever I got glomped. If I was DPS, I'd kind of expect that, because DPS's don't like interrupted their rotations because someone else will get all the damage. But I was a Tank. Built and equipped to take damage, not dish it out. I mean, sure, technically, I was holding Teekl's aggro, but I started up the game so I could play. Last night, when I was DPSing, I ran into the same thing. "Partners" who were DPSing, and couldn't be bothered to do anything but burn. Someone goes down? Sorry, I'm DPSing. A cog needs to be turned? Sorry, I'm DPSing.

When I've run through the JLD alert with my main, or with my fire Tank, we finish the Vampire Lord pretty quickly, because no one worries about... well, anything. All the DPS jump on the Vampire Lord and just burn until he goes down. All the other stuff that happens, or is supposed to happen, in that battle? I don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe what I'm about to say is controversial, I don't know. The only time mechanics shouldn't matter, in instances that have them, should be in Event.

Yes. That was part of the reason I wanted the initial difficulty split between 1st and final boss. So beating the final boss would be reason enough to stick around and try.
However, since the instance would be labeled in the on-duty menu like any regular instance, nobody who hits the random queue should expect to get into a group that attempts the extra bosses. It would simply be ppl asking at the end if the rest would want to continue, and from then on it's open-ended.
I can see a potential toxic behavior of people hitting the random queue, asking upon arriving if the group wants to go past the final boss, and if that answer is no, they leave. This should be a very small percentage of people that do that, however.

Just to really drive home how unbelievably stupid easy this game is right now - this is a random LFG TTn run on the EU, I'm battle healing, it took 10 mins. I don't have a single piece of healer gear on me.



Honestly I don't think we even needed the tank.. how is this appealing to anyone?!
I've done the same on LFG TTe runs too, those are soooo difficult it takes 15 minutes to complete instead of 10.

Elite styles and feats are not obtainable via trade/broker, they are gated. Extra rewards added to elite content does gate players from having it, but it is what you said, some are tradeable and you can get them at a high value if you try that method.

I find it interesting how many people really narrowly see how rewards are in this game. To the point, they see it as trivial, when it is not. If the rewards, story and so on was the same, there is no problem with this structure, but unfortunately, it doesn't work with the current landscape. Could it change? Maybe, but I think players would need to let go of multiple versions, period. The OP set it so he can maintain the elite difficulty, when is it really necessary to have? He also set better rewards included.

Again, I don't see how this would benefit the company other than allowing for less development for each instance. As they wouldn't have to balance 3+ versions of the same instance.

That's really the issue in the normal raid right now, is that the mechanics can be ignored with no consequence. I think lazy blast was originally killing people in the rock raid regular version, so they did an update when you could actually survive it.

I also healed TT reg in a random queue early on and we finished in under 10 minutes no deaths. I didn't even have my episode augments yet. RIP Sabo .

Great suggestions, but I don't know if it is achievable in this game, because of the types of players I believe exist.

Group 1 - Elite, Elite+, Competitive, Professional Players - they want the extremely harder challenges with the better rewards. Understandable.
Group 2 - Casual, Role-Playing, Semi-Pro Players - they want the challenge, but not at the expense of the entire experience of the content (i.e. skipping mechanics, enjoying lore)
Group 3 - New, less competitive, Amateur Players- Just starting out, need help, unless fast learners, and most likely will want to jump to a higher level of game play.

Trying to make all three of these groups happy in one game is almost impossible. Players wander in out of the different groups with either not enough skills or too much skill to disrupt players enjoyment in whatever group that belong to. All the groups right now are having a hard time finding players that play the game the way they like. The most vocal group (understandably) is Group 1, because they feel they are not being challenged. However, they seem to be becoming the minority in the game and therefore the game is moving towards making the majority (Group 1 & 2) happier. Group 1 needs to find a way to recruit more players to their style of play, instead of driving them away, and be more helpful (play at their pace) when enter the lower Group's content. Win the hearts of all the players and the Devs to want the Super-Players (Pros) around.

Peace and DCUO Forever

I remember that. Used to be, even in Regular, Lazy Blast could cause a wipe. I thought maybe more players were paying attention to the LB warning when I stopped seeing near or total wipes, but then playing as a Healer showed me that players were just surviving the blast, even if just barely.

Lately, when I do run the SttS On Duty stuff, I'm usually one of maybe 2 or 3 players that actually pay attention to the mechanics: Get in the dome, don't attack Nightmare Static, block the Taser Punch, absorb the Void Energy, stand on the tile with the matching symbol... Everybody else is just all about the burn. If the mechanics are going to be optional, or have no effect, then why even have them?

You're not wrong. I'm firmly in group #2. Definitely a casual; I play games to have fun, not to be punished for having the audacity to play the game. As you can probably tell from my other comments in this thread, though, I think Regular instances need to be less of "Event, but enemies have a little bit more health." If the instance has mechanics, then there needs to be some kind of penalty for ignoring them. If you're supposed to block something, then not blocking should have a consequence. If you're supposed to pick something up and carry over to an NPC, there needs to be a consequence for not doing it (as opposed to a consequence for doing it, which just encourages players to skip it). If there aren't going to be consequences for ignoring mechanics, then don't bother having the mechanics.

Agreed!

Your first mistake was thinking casual players don't like to raid, your second mistake was then using this logic to restrict content.

Any ideas that involve having exclusive content bosses and so forth to elite and elite+ is just an idea I cannot support.

There is currently nothing wrong with elite and elite+ content, I still see people playing it every day, the only people that really seem to be terribly upset are those that seem to want face melting one shot difficulty and honestly I'm not sure they're a big enough number to worry about.

The majority of players are not just breezing through elite content and definitely not elite+ content (and definitely not on day 1) when you consider all the players that play this game.

The next time you're out playing bounties inspect a bunch of randoms, take a real good look around, the only reason I think you think there way you do is because your circle of friends, league whatever finds it easy and you spend very little time with people outside of that circle.