New raid structure for difficulty and rewards

Welcome to this thread,
Recently I was thinking about the pain points where issues appear on both the player but also the developer side.

As we all know, raids are some of the best content this game has to offer. At the same time, it's also one of the most expensive and time-consuming content to create.

In recent Raids the difficulty missed the mark by quite a lot when it comes to elite+. The elite difficulty seems to be at a decent level, to a point where players that usually play only the normal version, try out elite now and then and the normal version has been as good as ever.

With this new structure/system, I hope the player base will merge further, by allowing a more fluid entry into elite or even elite+.

The positive aspects outweigh the negative ones by far, but they are still there.

Below is the current structure and the new one laid out. Following the Pro and Con list.

The overall goal is to have less dev-time spent where it isn't needed while also bringing the player base closer together and also growing together, to be able to beat dangerous threats more efficiently in the future.



To explain some of the elements in the new structure before too much confusion comes up:

• "Instance 1" in the new system is a single instance. No other options to queue besides event.
• Final boss is in regards to the story. As i know some really enjoy the story of these episodes and missing out on that because its locked behind elite+ would be very bad.
• Event doesn't have the final boss fight, but would have something like a "to be continued" text show up on screen upon completion, to incentivize players to keep pushing their characters in the higher tiers of difficulty.
• The Hallway/Wave event in the beginning would be necessary to provide an experience that isn't too short if players only want to go for the normal loot run. Alternatively there could be a longer 1st boss encounter or - if needed - a 4th boss, which would take that spot in the beginning. That way we won't end up with a 5minute raid for 10 marks in the furture.

Feel free to add to this list in the comments.

Difficulty in the recent normal raids has been embarrassing. Current raid is one of the easiest I can remember. I have not run event, but can't imagine it's easier unless you can maybe run 8 dps.

Some raids like TSW only had difficulty because 1 person could wipe most of the group. I'm trying to remember a good normal raid since DWF. Maybe Clock Tower? I think you could die on last boss, but once enough people died it was easier to space out.

I like the idea and the thought behind it, but c'mon man. You really think denying the average player access to 2/3 of the content is going to fly? Sure... it might motivate some to "git gud", but I'm willing to bet the masses rage quitting the entire game over it would be what the article was written about.

As soon as i saw "wont experience the final boss" thats a big hell nah from me. Thanks for sharing the idea but thats a terrible structure. The Current Structure is just fine. Difficulty is whats unbalanced and its met with an improper progression system that makes it tedious and boring at times.

Which players make up the majority of the population in game? Those who run elite+ or those who do not?

Cool idea! I read through on the edge of my seat. In fairness, I did have a smirk on my face, knowing the culture and understanding the trend of our time that most readers would stop at the 1st thing they got into their feelings about and say, "That's trash." I won't put words in your mouth, but it seems likely you saw that possibility as well. Thanks for sharing anyway!

What I love: The way you list Bonus-> Rare drop made me feel your strategy is serious about offering a strong, realistic chance of getting a great reward upon final completion. That detail is clutch for beating a boss that would probably take many players multiple hrs throughout the week, especially early in the episode.

What I love less: You listed cons, which is useful, but not nearly as instructive as what CONSequences they lead to. Possibly the most devastating one is this- Noticable part of the population is unsatisfied, goes on strike -> ppl close to them follow, having less fun w/o their buds -> others, who were originally fine with it, tired of struggling against the talent loss, stop trying -> OOF

I have other thoughts but I'll sit on them. This is really new and I'd like to read others' comments. I respectfully hope no 1 poo poos the high drop potential thing as a solid incentive for most of us if they, a) Already own everything they want in the game, b) Have 50 weekly hrs + 20 toons to farm, c) Use non-TOS compliant earning methods or d) routinely buy/open 500 of each new B.Bundle and capsule Take care guys

Keep one thing in mind, this is a story driven IP with a big history in it's Lore. If you lock out players from being able to see the whole story, it puts players who don't, can't, or unable to complete the harder versions from at least seeing it.

I see your idea. It definitely would alleviate some development time, but it would definitely put a negative response from a bigger part of the community than you realize and most likely affect the bottom line for the company.

Almost 90% of players in game and on this board doesn't run elite regularly, let alone elite+. Ironically the same 90% doesn't want bosses to have any mechanics that can hurt them. You can't propose an idea to such a large crowd depriving them the story line of an episode.

Elite difficulty needs to be consistent across the board. They need to set elite difficulty to the original FOS and elite+ to origin crisis. That way it doesn't alienate players who are accustom to playing at certain difficulty.

It's kind of astounding how some people are treating this matter like current Elite+ isn't basically Normal difficulty of a couple years ago.

The difference is during those years, around 75% of the community was able to run that difficulty. Nowadays it takes longer to form an elite+ group than the raid itself.

After looking at your chart again, instance 1 of the new structure is retroactively how normal was. If you include final and extra boss in instance 2 (event), then it becomes if you can't run normal, then run event.

So here is what i was thinking about. Based on what i experienced over the years, casual players like to do the duo, alert and open world stuff a lot. Raids are a once a week thing for them, and getting the same rewards as ever should make them still not feel robbed of anything. On top, im certain Elite is at a level where most will be able to beat it at least once a week, even if they're not the best players perhaps. After all its just a single boss at that diffculty and not a whole raid like before.
On top of that, the extra boss will add nothing interesting for them too, as its not tied to the story or anything really, simply a challenge for those willing to attempt it.

I get that, and the best option would probably be to have 4 bosses with 2 of them being extra for elite and elite+.

However, I've been in soo many random groups that initally wanted to go in a normal raid to farm loot but it's elite mode was so easy i could convince them that we try it, and went through it without major problems most of the time. That's what lead me to believe that 75% of the playerbase will be able to easily finish that last boss once a week, unless you play the event version of course. Its just one boss after all and elite difficulty is usually so easy, that most of the elite+ people take almost anyone from lfg just to fill their group as fast as possible, making it accessible for those that may struggle sometimes even more.

In the end a final boss should feel like a tough fight, or not? You may not beat it the first time you get to it, but won't miss out on anything in terms of loot for that week anyway, as you got all your usual rewards during the 1st boss already.

I'm confused. Can you rephrase it please?

So far im not surprised by the reactions and all have their valid reasons.
Please continue to give feedback to this, to maybe tweak the structure a bit if you feel like it's needed.

I think you are trying to apply logic of old raid systems from other games to how this game is being developed. Unfortunately, the game goes slightly backwards on thinking. Instead of gearing up to challenge the raid, you challenge the raid to gear up. IE, content needs to be completable, even elite.

It would require the devs to go backwards towards how it was in the old T2, T3, & T4 systems of loot and challenge. Unfortunately, replays have spoiled the well and if they went back, they would have a retention problem.

But if you geared up to nearly max from the previous episode, elite from the next episode is still easy for the majority and those that could use a stat bump would get it either way. They may not beat the last boss on their 1st attempt, but won't miss out on loot either. They could even go back inside the raid on the last day of the week before reset, geared up much more than on day one and still get the last boss loot. That way they actually get more marks out of the raid in total than what they would usually get.

You also seem to not realize how FOMO works when it comes to rewards. If the player can't get all the progression rewards, they will get frustrated because they feel they are missing all the rewards. That's the thing about Elite content, a significant number of players see it as progression and rewards they can never have, add this system you are suggesting, it will do what I was talking about in my initial post.

Why are you bringing up Fomo? Fear of missing out has nothing to do with this in terms of rewards.

The episodes are here to stay. You can do the content whenever you want. You would miss out on the elite rewards as much as you miss out on them right now, if you choose to only run the normal version.

Fomo about the story is kind of valid, but im pretty sure you try to stand up for players that set unrealistic standards.
Just like i stand up for people with equally unrealistic standards at times.

I think the big problem with current content is that it's too easy to ignore the mechanics in event and normal content. This makes for brain-dead easy content. That in turn leads to lazy/poor players.

I love the out-of-the box thinking of the original post, but I don't think it will wind up improving the game very much. At best, you'd wind up with lots of players being carried through instances. At worst, you'd find yourself unable to even try to complete content as your whole group disbands after the first boss.