A question about Omni DPS

First off let me be clear, this isn’t a brag post.

So I’ve been running Omni raids literally all day, with a league mate. I’m rage, he’s munitions.
Out of an easy 15 raids ran we were top two dps in every single one. And we were within a mil of each other every single time. remember this is clamped content so most things are equal and my arts aren’t even maxed, 180 160 160, but the damage differences between me and him versus every other dps we came across save maybe one, was so large that it’s not hard to see how some might think “x” power is OP, etc etc. when I say gapped, I mean anywhere from 2x-10x the 3rd place dps.

So what I’m wondering, is why? Why is there such a huge disparity between dps in clamped content? Is it the way the game “boosts” the lower cr players? Are they not getting a good enough stat boosts to be competitive? If it were just a here and there thing I would assume their rotations. But so many? I’d love to think that we’re just super excel dps but I know with out a doubt I’m only an above average lol. I don’t do all the things that makes one a super excel dps. Too lazy. I also don’t think that it is a power imbalance, munitions isn’t ever mentioned as an S tier power, and when I run with him or my gadgets buddy it’s always within a mil of each other.

It seems the end gamers coming into clamp are doing just fine and are well balanced, but the people being boosted are not being boosted enough to help with burn. It’s gotta be discouraging to come in a piece of content, be the same cr as the other dps, and get completely bodied. Is there no way to test boost vs brought down?

I am not into the clamping numbers too much.

Artifacts and all this nice endgame stuff scales differently. So you have an advantage with high artifacts vs. like lvl 40 artifacts.


I love to run Omnibusraids and had my fair share of different experiences.
What I noticed:


People coming fresh from a CR boost or "new-to-the-content" people struggle in this content.
Try to inspect them from time to time.
You will see those things:
Mixed role gear / wrong role gear
Totally random Augments (like totally random)
Random artifacts at like lvl 30
People having no clue about "optimal" rotations and specs (or sp). They are basically randomly using skills/weapons they like.

And that's totally fine. Those people will struggle in content because they don't know how to play their role/power/mechanics and all that.

Most if not all of it is the players themselves. As you alluded to, some just aren't that great. I ran into this with former leaguemates. Me and a friend were running the T3 ToTD elite for the 50 elite counter and both and and I were consistently 2x/3x ing everyone else in overall and boss damage. It was taking us 2 or 3 phases to kill Ares and burn just sluggish. After a few of these slow runs, a few people left, we brought in a few pug DPS and we were killing ares in 1 phase with plenty of time to spare and we went from runs that were almost 9 mins to runs that were 5 or 6 mins. And after that someone else commented how fast it was and both he and I acknowledged that once you get DPS that are good and know their power and have solid rotations, things are fast and smooth.

And this isn't just clamped content, it happens everywhere. If you get Joe Schmoe who doesn't know munitions very well and probably got told a loadout from his good buddy leaguemate and Jane Doe who's been playing munitions for a very long time, has done extensive testing, Jane knows the what powers have the shortest dovetail, how to position themselves to avoid being 1shot etc...Well guess what Jane Doe will most likely wipe the floor with Joe. So at the end of the day, its all about awareness and experience with both the power and knowledge of the content's mechanics.

Yea I am a firm believer in it’s the player not the power. It’s the just if I’m this logic is applied then that means a very large percentage of players are way below average. It seems improbable. You’re probably right, I’d almost rather it be an under the hood stat boost problem than a huge disconnect between knowledgeable dps and the not so much.

I'm guessing its because stat boosted low CRs wont have new levels of their artifacts unlocked, or the best dps artifacts picked for them. That should be a large chunk of damage missing.

Also, skill points have a large effect. Beginning toons will have usually have < 100 sp. Compare that to a seasoned toon with over 400sp and you will see a difference in dps #'s.

Depending on the mission in question, it's also possible that someone is taking care of cogs and other mechanics instead of focusing on damage. This will only be in some content, of course.

It may seem improbable but its true. Most players aren't great players, they may be decent players but most pugs that I see on a daily basis are D+/C- players when they really try. Some of that is due to it being a pug, but even judging the player on the skill alone, most fall in the C- ish range. You know why some of those US-EU PC/PS make hard raids/feats look easy? Its not because they themselves are all A+ tier players although some may be. The reason why those leagues make things look easy is because they all have been playing with each other for a long time, and know what the other guy is going to do, they know the mechanics and they're all on the same page/have the same goal going in. I'm not going to state the obvious like using the latest FOTM meta because most everyone does that. They have synergy and momentum (they're all on the same page). Thats why some of those leagues make things look easy. On the flip side you have a ton of pug groups out their that smash their head against a wall for 4-5 hrs and may get a feat and everyone is exhausted.

My former league was like this, we tried for the 10 bomb feat in FVE, I left @ the 90 min mark because I was tired @ smashing my head against the wall for 90 mins and couldn't even get the boss to 50% without wiping. I came back the next day and asked a few people did they finish/how long were they in their, they were @ the first boss for 6 hrs before they finally got the bomb feat and it took them another 2 hrs just to beat 2nd and 3rd boss fights and they called that a success. The league leader was bragging about it. I don't know about you but bragging it took you 6 hrs to get 1 10pt feat and another 2 hrs to finish the raid without getting feats is kinda bad, its nothing to brag about. And the reason it took them so long is that their 1 healer that kept going afk in the middle of the fight and people refused to say anything or kick them, you had 2-3 people talking about bs nonsense and people kept dying all over the place because either people couldn't or wouldn't concentrate on the raid. So they smashed their head against the wall for 8 hrs in a raid and sure they got a feat, but they also came out with a bleeding noggin and a broken face. Because I'll tell ya, unless you're willing to concentrate and at least try to learn...that brick wall will win every time.

If you took the time to inspect the others you would find:
1. Wrong gear/mixed gear/PvP gear.
2. No/incorrect tactical mods.
3. No league buffs.
4. Low rank/incorrect artifacts.
5. Low/mixed/incorrect augments.
6. Low Skill Points.
7. New/Lost/Imbecilic.
8. Probably dry generator too.

It’s pretty much what was said above by a few people. Most pug players aren’t very good. Just yesterday I random qued fos since I was running my toons through source farms while being qued for raids. I ended up having 5x the damage as the second player. On my alts I had 3x as much damage. And there were maxed toons with maxed artifacts against my alts with no elite gear, no op gear, and a 120 art and 2 160. There are bad players.

One of the biggest issues I see is that people just get a random loadout from YouTube and think they will do good. Get out dpsed and think the other power is broken or prec is broken. And btw one of the players in the group was also prec lol.

People don’t try to test loadouts/rotations. People don’t try to learn mechanics. Now, I’m not saying every pug is bad. Yesterday my prec main ran into a maxed muni who tax swapped and did the work and did beat me by 2 mil. Granted I didn’t swap armories and did went through the way I do with pugs but still. There are some great players out there. Same goes for roles. Most pug aren’t the best but every once in a while you run into good ones. It’s the pug life lol

Its actually a lot easier to answer without having to resort to Elitist answers like "they're not good players" like a few already have. In response to them, i'd point out that "good" is subjective, and i'd much rather be in any content with a middling dmg dps who bothers to pick up KO'd players, than one leading in dmg out who likely keeps spamming rotations while they stand beside KO'd players telling themselves "not my job".


Anyway, to your question. The simple answer is that a lot of Omnibus groups are 50% made up of new/learning players. There is a reason why the same duos pop for Omni over and over and over. Other times its existing players in there tired of giving 100% like they do in Elite Content, and are there to "participate" to a certain degree, but not necessarily compete. And finally, there are players who really just dont care about Scoreboard chasing, and just enjoy playing their own way.

Just to point out too, your Omni example isn't even close enough to be able to state something like "a very large percentage of players are way below average". You'd genuinely need Months of continuous Omni spamming to be able to statistically prove a claim like that. Not trying to criticize, merely a mathematical correction. Theres also a reason why most, if not all, statistically held facts are based on Months-Years of research from Multiple groups with Variables introduced, instead of 1-day surveys. We leave that for Family Fortunes.

Are people that just heard about this game and installed it for the FIRST time really expected to know very single detail on how to get "great" dps out of a game they are just trying out?

And also when you first started playing how long did it take you to become "good"?

Not directed at ANYONE specific, as the OP's question wasn't

It took me 1 group of friends, 2 years and a stats revamp to get good.

I'll give a little perspective on why it's the player and not the content.

I've ran 3 different account characters through Omnibus to level them up.

1st one was on my main account that I purchased a ton of feats to bring him in line with my account. (500+ sp) I wrecked. Always top. The only time I wasn't, was when my league mate came with me and he would out damage me by a small margin. Which I chocked up to his artifacts piercing through.

2nd is my switch account. In the clamped content I've yet to be out damaged and in unclamped I vary from instances. And I'm never lowest DPS. I have very few skill points on that account.

3rd is an alt account I made years ago. Has about 200 sp. And in tank stance I can often top the charts.

Players in Omnibus are learning and building their characters. The game is now fully free and I'm enjoying it.

I didn’t get good till I found people better than me and asked a ton of questions lol.
Then found the forums and that helped a ton.
But as for dps, I think the thing that separates new players from others the most, besides gear and sp and arts, is knowledge in clipping.
Clipping powers is really a big break through for dps.
When I learned why I would never ever beat a hard light toon back in t3 days it opened up a whole new world of how to play. How you have to play if you want to compete. They should put a load screen with the forums addy and a load screen with the clipping hierarchy as tip screens or something.

Thanks for all the well thought out replies. I don’t inspect players but I’ll definitely start looking. Maybe I can help someway if they want it.

There's a history of some push back from some of the people behind DC Universe Online with clipping and whether it was ever intended to exist in the first place. I suspect that is why they don't provide tips for it, but that is only a suspicion. Given that it was never fully removed but removed only in some cases, it seems like it should be accepted as intended at this point for the areas and powers in which it does still exist.

Oh I remember the clipping war of 2012 lol. It was a huge debate. I was in the camp that I wasn’t intended, but wasn’t going anywhere lol. So we saw the dove tail and the hierarchy’s updates. All in all it’s great for the game, just a huuuuge knowledge barrier to new players

It's hilarious when support roles are like second or third best for damage in some pug groups, like what? If you're getting out dpsed by the Healer or Tank, like really?

Sometimes its because the tank or healer have dps gear, artifacts and arent doing their actual role very well. They're just dpsing with a different role on

To be fair some players might consider that to be Battle Supporting, not that I'd agree necessarily.