Post Stats Clamp SP Relevancy

It does, this is true, to the tune of extreemly minimal and diminishing returns.
Anyone who has even a marginal SP pool tho inows that the more u have, the harder it is to attain so the current system works opposite of how it should IMO.
Those that put the time and effort and sometimes work in should be handsomely rewarded IMO
Anyone can have 200 arts, anyone can have max CR, Anyone can have any pet, the same orbitals an supply drops
Really literally any player can have basically everything and endgame fully max’d player can have.
SP is about the only exception i can think of and the difference between your 150 sp and my 550 sp is so marginal its laughable (its an example, i dunno your sp lol)

Thats why im for this, the 1 thing i can do (and have done as have others) that most cant/wont or havent yet is attain a hearty SP pool where 200+ of it is doing nothing for me but adding a bit of health and lets be real, that health gain aint changing anything so yes, IMO, players like me that grind it out and put the work in do in fact deserve to far better off statistically than those who cruise along limping by.

I would aslo ask whats your angle as your arguing for less separation?
I see it like this, theres minimal options here.
1) you (not you you, in general i mean) are ok cruising along which in MOST cases (perhaps not yours) is = content being carried
Well, if your a “cruiser” then this change benefits you as i’d be more of a beast then i already am and better equipped to carry you (again, not you you)
OR
2) you dont want more separation because you want to be more competitive BUT arent willing to put the work in hus do NOT deserve to be as competitive as someone who does.
In this model, the option is A) put the work in or B) be content but you (cant stress enough im generalizing and dont mean YOU specifically) cant honestly choose to be content and present a rational argument as to why you (same everything but 150 SP) vs me (same everything but 550 SP) should be on equal ground?
I mean, the current system almost punishes you for grinding.
I get why low SP would not want this change.
It would mean they’d have to either accept mediocrity OR put in the work and neither is appealing. I ground the SP and have more to go, i get it. I do.
But that disparity should be VERY noticeable.

Not Directly, but your statement isint fully true.
Some do require a fair bit of skill to attain and some require lots of experience to attain and if a player has 550 and another player has 150 and you have to choose one, who do u pick? If the raid may depend on ur choice or the feat may depend on ur choice who do u take?

Seriously the answer is obvious, the 550 sp player is statistically more likely to have seen the instance and ran it numerous times. Its the FAR safer bet and you know it.

And besides, you saying sp is not a measure of skill doesnt answer my question.
Its time to build a group for a brand new elite raid and your shouting, if SP isint a metric to use (and the best at our disposal) then you tell me what is?
I dont shout SP be ause at this point im a confident enough dps that i can and have carried other dps’s through elite with good heals an troll an tank.
So i dont care, im just saying SP is the best metric we have to make our best guess on who is more likely to be a benefit.
Its the smart bet and you know it

Facts, me And my SP ignore the “meta” openly and have no issues dps’n anything. Short of SA (i assume thats still considered meta yes?) i do virtually everything “wrong” as a quantum dps according to every guide i have seen looking years back lol.

I still say SP does need reworked because the “work” needed to aquired it after say 400 sp. the returns are diminishing quick from about what, 250 ish? And the effort (and often coordination) required raises dramatically.
More work for less benefit (or no benefit in some cases) seems backward. More work should = more benefit IMO

If you have more SP you deserve to reap the benefits

Ehhh, "diminishing returns" is also a bit of a myth - the first 100 SP in a production stat (Might or Precision) account for about a 12%-14% gain above a Crits Only SP build (77-100 SP), the next 195 are responsible for a similar amount of gain - 12-14% on top of that first 100.

So while it's technically a diminishing return, it's also the difference between 64,500 and 75,000 damage a second; so it makes a VERY significant difference in your output, and makes it VERY worth pursuing as a goal because of that difference.

Not to mention that more SP = multiple concurrent specializations; a Tank that can only afford Crits, Movement, Iconics, and Weapons is nowhere near as effect as the Tank that can afford 295 SP in Health and an extra 70 in Dom or Resto.

A DPS that can afford Crits, Movements, and that first 100 SP outputs significantly less than the DPS that can afford all 295, but if that 295 stack DPS can also afford things like :

• Power/Heal Crits, they can now also Battle Control/Support at a high output threshold, or
• run Mystic Seven with Heal crits and be able to sustain a constant background HOT from Strategist, or
• drop an extra 100 SP in Might and have a crapload of extra punch from Might-segment Abilities and high-output Lern's Healing, or
• put 100 extra SP in Health and tac swap a Tetra in a high-output Might rotation, or...

See where I'm going with this yet? Like, you don't need just "more raw Might" to have a higher threshold of DPS effectiveness, because there are adjunct functions that will give you access to more Might by having the raw SP to drive those builds options, and once you're past the 400 mark those options become a little less theoretical and a lot more applicable.

That's one of the main factors in why I don't think SP needs to be altered - right now there are multiple plateaus of effectiveness, more can ALWAYS be used for something, and once you're that far ahead of a base player you should be multi-tasking anyway, IMHO.

I'm glad that somebody is enjoying it.

The stat clamp greatly diminished the amount that I play. Older content that previously I was only marginally willing to farm for a feat or style, those all have become more time-consuming and more obnoxious, and the chance of actually getting that feat for doubling back is no longer any better. So stuff that I barely wanted to play when it was fast, now it takes twice as long... and it is half as appealing.

Additionally, even my endgame progression has largely died. The "new" content just involves replaying old stuff that I've already been doing for years. Attaching new currency to something that was old and boring did not somehow make it new and exciting. It just means grinding the same old stuff even more.

And even when I do grind the endgame stuff, it doesn't actually feel like I've accomplished anything, since I know that the whole game has basically been turned into a glorified "Event" version. "Hey! I've got better gear and higher stats... that don't work because I get clamped down." Yippee.

The one saving grace that I thought I might have with the stat clamp was that alts might be more viable, but no. The new Episode further reduced the playability of alts be eliminating the Vault and the Stabilizers Event, so there is no longer anything quick to do to shore them up. Now they can only, exclusively, be leveled through long, slow content. The same stuff that was boring to do on the main, so there is no strong desire to run it multiple times across even more characters.

The whole thing just radiates a cheap desire to shake up the game into a "we don't have to bother to create as much new content anymore" system. We're supposed to settle for the same leftovers we've had for years, and we're supposed to be happy with it, because they took away all the gear we worked for that might have made it remotely faster and less boring.

First off, Stat Clamp still remains a very positive direction for the game as a whole. The new On Duty needs to be cleaned up A LOT, but overall it’s good. I enjoy the random queuing directly into content.

Yes, the new duty menu needs to be fixed. Great idea, just lacking some basic things like being able to que for multiple things at once. I want to Omnibus que for alerts and raids so that that when I finish one, I am able to jump right back into the next thing. Or add a "keep qued" option. That way I can stayed qued for raids even after I've finished. Also, if the group leader ques under custom then have a option for us to ready up on the main page.... Why do I have to go to custom? Stream line everything to be the fastest possible way to ready up.

However, overall this is absolute trash Bc a player who has spent years grinding and playing can easily be out done by someone willing to spend money and picking the Meta power of the month.

Pay to win. The goal of the company is to make money. Games been out for 10 years and has a low population. Revenue income trumps your devoted hours. It is what it is, but they will never cater to players that bring in a lower profit margin.

So tell me devs, why should we invest so much time and money in the game when lower players can spend a month or two raising their CR and be just as good or even better than veterans who have spent years “strengthening their character?

You shouldn't. Want them to value you? Stop spending money. Hurt their wallets. This advice is for any game that puts micro transactions over the player. Till then, you are a minority of their target audience.

My proposed solution: make skill points a unofficial fifth artifact.

The day they do this is the day that skill points will be purchasable through the market place. Cr boost to 330 with 250 skill points? Sure, just pay $30 and we will give you all the old school feats along with Legends PVE and PVP feats completed.



I know it sounds bad, but I don't hate the game. It's just the way it is. We all decide on our owns whether we play or not. Don't expect a decade old game to cater to a population of the player base that brings in less revenue. I would personally rather them get to a conclusion in this game and start working on DCUO 2. The longer this game stays up, the less likely we have of getting a updated sequel. Just the thought of a updated sequel has my mind exploding of how much fun it would be.

If I'm not mistaken, 101-295 account for that high of a percentage in large part due to the other various percentage modifiers boosting the numbers (artifacts, affinity mods, and even the 10% fro the first 100). Without those % buffs, the ratio wouldn't be nearly as even.

Also, the benefit of that first 100 is widely and perpetually applicable and can provide additional benefit in certain circumstances. It's kicking in as you level a new DLC's gear. It's kicking in as you level up an OP item, doubly so if it's chest, legs or head. It's kicking in if you decide to change your artifact setup and swap for one with higher base stats. Uniquely, this DLC makes the ratio even more heavily in favor of the first 100 since we're increasing gear and origin augment stats but didn't get a sp cap raise.

Lastly, that 195 is heavily backend loaded. So for example, someone who is at 300 or less (meaning only around 250 or less in their primary stat), has 75%-85% of the 101-295 SP but they're probably only getting 50% or less of the max total benefit of the entire 101-295 range. And that's also true for a high SP person who has maxed out their primary stat, put 100 in a secondary stat and is climbing from there. The latter really only applies to support roles, particularly tanks (especially with health for a DPS being increasingly useless due to more recent DLC's using more and more percentage based damage). But essentially it produces a range of SP where you're better off speccing a 3rd stat after hitting 100 on your 2nd stat even if that 3rd stat is significantly less beneficial than the third. If I had a nickel for every time I've explained the math of why I specced my atomic tank in to resto after hitting 100 health...welll...I'd have a s***load of nickels. lol

And that's where the biggest flaw in the SP system is. That being that SP 101-240ish are practically useless. I remember one time a league mate heard me say that for my prec DPS I stopped adding sp in to might/power after 100 and he was like "you're gadgets, all them might powers you're clipping, WHY NOT?!?!". My retort to which was "my next sp in might/power gives me a whopping nine might....you heard me right, not 90, not even nineteen...NINE!!!!!" lol

Meh, disagree but its all good.
Im talking just SP here
Tac swapping an battle this an that aint the topic (and i am a purist, i think this battle crap is for the birds. You do ur job and i will do mine).
For me its the diminishing returns which as you layed out, it takes 2x the sp to get same result.
Its a backward system where the more work and time you put in the less benefit u get.
Thats it for me, its that simple is all

Specifically to ur last paragraph:
Your completely missing the point of this DLC and your wildly off base on what it means.
The point is to make the game playable to ALL players, specifically to drawl in and retain new players (thats good for the game even if you cant see it)
And to ur “now im clamped, yippee”. Yea you are and if your a good player your still insanely OP (i can see why your upset if you camt hold your own tho).
They arent setting a precedent of “not bothering to create content” and no we are not “supposed to be happy with leftovers”.
What we are supposed to do is understand how big of a change to the game this was and time consuming it was to do especially with a completly new hub bringing us 1 step closer to chats merging and being able to invite cross faction.
What we are supposed to do is stop going “me me me, my gear, blah blah blah” and understand that your me me me attitude and facerolling content is NOT helping the game in any way. Its not fun for new players and if the game to have longevity then they must bring in and retain new people.

I get it i do. I grinded my gear too.
I go into all the content and feel like a monster. Clamp changed absoultly nothing for me except now it takes a little longer is all. Top dps everytime still mostly. And guess what, in the grand scheme, my time that ised to be free but now im using cause it takes longer is NOT more important than bring in and retaining new players. Not even to me (1st off im not that selfish or self centered) but mostly because if something like this didnt happen to get and retain new players then i prob wouodnt have a game to play so yes, good trade
Sorry if you cant see this

Agree with most except where u say an player spending $30 can out dps when they are new and i been at this for years.
Not happenin. I will bet you any ammount of $ my friend.
Perhaps i misread but if thats what u said or meant then challenge accepted

Shrug. I respect that you feel different. I certainly didn't feel the need to insult players that disagreed with my opinions, even if you feel like the only way to defend your feelings is to attack anyone who disagrees.

I was pretty clear about why I feel the way I feel.

It's not a matter of "Oh my goodness, it's too hard now." And it was never an issue of "Oh my gosh, it's too easy" before.

I've been playing this game since closed Beta.

I played Inner Caverns when it was new and challenging. I beat it back then, dozens of times, and got everything there was to drop out of it. It became boring, because I'd run it a hundred times.

Then they released it as a 4-player Alert, which was still boring. It was the exact same thing, but I started doing it daily instead of weekly, grinding marks by repeating something that was already boring.

We just had an Alert in Metal where we did that same ARC fight daily for another full Episode. It isn't somehow more fun the 400th time of running it.

And now, to play my endgame character, let's run it even more.

Re-using old content didn't become boring because our gear made it too easy. It was easy enough that we were running it with zero deaths back in the level appropriate gear. Re-using old content is boring because it is old content that we have already run hundreds upon hundreds of times. Bit by bit, it has become exhaustively, mind-numbingly painful. Not challenging or difficult. Just boring.

The one saving grace of old content was gear progression. We could level up more and more powerful, so that when we went into boring content, at least it was over quickly. A zero death run that is boring but over in 18 minutes is vastly superior to a zero death run that is boring but takes 45 minutes. Occasionally I could be coerced into running something old with the justification of "at least it's fast". Without that as a selling point, the old, boring content is just too annoying.

Not too hard.

Not too challenging.

Nothing to do with if it can be completed. It's still incredibly easy, by virtue of having run it a hundred times.

Just absurdingly, mind-numbingly boring, which is aggravated by the fact that now, while it remains easy, it is far more slooooooooooooooooooooow.

What insult? Self centered? Pfft, thats an observation not an insult. If it hits home then hey, look in the mirror i guess maybe?
And rehashed or reused content of the past is not what is happening here in this episode and its not setting a tone or precedent for reusing old content either.
Wouod u rather we got nothing to do? That was the option. They completely overhauled the game to change how its experienced for the better for all players but mostly for everyone whos not max everything which is the vast majority.
I can agree to disagree but to pretend something is happening thats not and to pretend it was better for everyone before and to pretend we should have somehow got all new verything alongside the all new everything we did get is just absurd.
Im sorry u feel the way u do but hey, u do u my friend

I politely disagree, and explained as much.

YES, I absolutely would have preferred that we received nothing at all, rather than receive this. Because, and this is just the observation of fact, there is zero new content to play with this anyways. We're replaying the old content. The only difference is that now our gear has been turned off, our progression doesn't matter, and so the old boring stuff now takes even longer while still being old and boring.

You can claim that this is somehow "for the better for all players", but I entirely disagree on that point.

I think that there are many players who do not feel better off being told to play old content they had already exhausted, and then being nerfed down into oblivion so that the old, boring stuff takes longer. Content that previously I ran occasionally based on the idea "Meh. Somebody wants help, and it won't take long", now has firmly locked itself into the Run-It-NEVER catagory.

If I only barely was willing to run a 20 minute FoS2, then why on earth would I want to run a 50 minute FoS2? How is making it take twice as long supposed to increase my fun factor? If I didn't enjoy it when it was boring but fast, why would it be better when it's boring and sloooooooooooooooow.

This was not a move for the betterment of all players. This was a move that was designed to placate exclusively the new players, and do it at the damage to the experience of veteran players.

If a veteran player wanted to play at a lower difficulty, they had the option to remove gear. They could already do it.

And if they were pushing for a Feat, or just wanted it done fast, or were working to carry some inexperienced players, they had to option to use the gear that they had worked for and earned. That option has been taken away. And fewer options is not an improvement; it's a downgrade.

Guessing their “4” is bottle soder

I see what your saying and im max everything end game as well and personally wouod prefer something new and would also prefer to faceroll old content if/when i chose to enter. Thats not not conducive to new players to be blitzed through an instance and never learn much of anything exceot how to play 1 handed because all they have to do is make a mild attempt at following you.
His system (like it or not) at least gives all players the chance to actually hit the buttons and see some mechanics. You and I may not need or want that opportunity but if we set ourselves aside and put on the shoes of a new player, surely you can see the benefit?
We may just agree to disagree on this one tho

Stat clamp positive?


Getting rid of CR (progression the whole point of most gaming)...



Looking for people in content now...


lastly trying to group and finish feats in a post stat clamp game...




My last concern is someone buying their way to "power" that now means virtually nothing. I have characters with mid tier arts and skills doing nearly the same damage as those I get paired with that are maxed out. Progression means very little anymore.

☝️True

I suppose...but i dont consider that an artifact. Maybe more like a derivative. LoL